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[00:20:47] <skunkworks> you guys are awesome.
[01:54:31] <SWPLinux> do we still need bot INPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_SCALE in the ini?
[01:54:34] <SWPLinux> both
[01:54:47] <SWPLinux> or is that only used in HAL config now?
[01:55:08] <cradek> umm
[01:55:55] <SWPLinux> if it's still somewhere in EMC, it should probably be removed ...
[01:56:14] <cradek> there are a few remains
[01:57:04] <cradek> a couple of the guis do use INPUT_SCALE
[01:57:19] <cradek> ./emc/usr_intf/xemc.cc:// the size of the smallest increment to jog, = 1/INPUT_SCALE
[01:57:27] <SWPLinux> bummer. that's non-intuitive for stepper configs
[01:57:31] <cradek> axis does something like that too
[01:57:49] <cradek> what do you mean? (if it works) it lets you jog one step at a time
[01:58:09] <SWPLinux> it's an OUTPUT_SCALE in stepper configs ...
[01:58:41] <SWPLinux> (for people who don't know that emc still tracks the position based on stepgen output)
[01:59:02] <cradek> yeah.
[01:59:19] <cradek> maybe we should (one day) call it SCALE
[01:59:45] <SWPLinux> yeah. and possibly get rid of the offset
[01:59:55] <SWPLinux> though it's probably still used in analog servo systems
[02:01:28] <SWPLinux> eh. that can wait for a redo of the config system
[02:01:40] <cradek> yep
[02:12:30] <SWPLinux> argh. lyx-qt is being annoying
[02:12:47] <SWPLinux> I can't view as PDF because there are several errors:
[02:13:13] <SWPLinux> Font T1/cmr/m/n/12=ecrm1200 at 12.0pt not loadable: Metric (TFM) file not fou
[02:13:15] <SWPLinux> \maketitle
[02:13:24] <SWPLinux> (yes, the error is cut off mid-word)
[02:14:00] <SWPLinux> any suggestions? I haven't changed fonts at all, except to select "title" for the title, and bold for some other text
[02:14:13] <cradek> can you view-as-pdf any of the other fiels?
[02:14:25] <SWPLinux> gut kvestion
[02:15:33] <cradek> do you have tetex-extra installed?
[02:15:49] <SWPLinux> I can't view others, but it 's due to style "bookman" not installed ..
[02:15:51] <SWPLinux> hmmm
[02:16:33] <SWPLinux> ah - no
[02:17:06] <SWPLinux> is there going to be a separate emc-doc package?
[02:17:12] <cradek> no
[02:17:17] <SWPLinux> that would make build-dep a little easier to manage :)
[02:17:37] <cradek> yeah but people (especially upgraders) wouldn't have the docs we'd like them to have
[02:17:45] <SWPLinux> it may be useful anyway, since people without emc may want to be able to read the docs ...
[02:17:53] <cradek> website
[02:18:01] <SWPLinux> true
[02:18:37] <SWPLinux> yay
[02:18:40] <SWPLinux> thanks
[02:18:54] <SWPLinux> damn. it's already almost a page using the default style
[02:19:11] <SWPLinux> and I've only gotten through the formula for INPUT_SCALE
[02:19:13] <cradek> btw I figured that out with "apt-file search crm1200"
[02:19:35] <cradek> I'm still hoping for one page quickstarts :-)
[02:19:49] <SWPLinux> I don't think that search would have worked for me since the package wasn't installed
[02:19:56] <SWPLinux> yep - working on it :)
[02:20:11] <SWPLinux> I'd like it to be at least somewhat useful, not just a ghost placeholder
[02:20:16] <cradek> yes, that's the point of apt-file
[02:20:30] <SWPLinux> oh. cool
[02:20:33] <cradek> it gets the list from the repositories
[02:20:37] <cradek> I use it all the time
[02:22:02] <SWPLinux> which pdf output do you usually use? (pdflatex, ps2pdf, dvipdfm)
[02:22:26] <cradek> um me?
[02:22:37] <cradek> I only know to type 'make'
[02:22:40] <SWPLinux> err - the document generator ;)
[02:22:40] <SWPLinux> hehe
[02:22:47] <cradek> really
[02:22:52] <cradek> I have no idea how to use lyx
[02:23:34] <cradek> I used to write LaTeX by hand but I'm rusty (and I didn't care about pdf at the time)
[02:26:16] <SWPLinux> hmmm. well, it uses lyx --export=pdf2
[02:26:20] <SWPLinux> whatever that means
[02:30:21] <jtr> it might be latex2pdf - I got errors about that being missing. I think I was running configure when I got those errors.
[02:31:48] <SWPLinux> thanks. it seems to be working with whichever one I clicked a couple of minutes ago :)
[02:33:58] <jtr> oops, it was when I ran apt-get install latex2html - didn't have the multiverse repository enabled.
[02:48:26] <cradek> SWPLinux: I'm working on some notes to put in standard_pinout.hal (in the stepper sample config). would you give me your comments:
http://pastebin.ca/324220
[02:48:43] <jepler> cradek: on my system, tetex-extra was already pulled in by latex2html -- any idea why that wasn't working for others?
[02:49:23] <cradek> Depends: perl, netpbm (>= 2:9.20), gs, tetex-bin (>= 1.0.7+20001218), tetex-extra
[02:49:33] <cradek> hmm, no idea, looks like it should have been.
[02:50:12] <jmkasunich> cradek: looks good to me
[02:50:22] <cradek> SWPLinux: I wonder how/if this fits in with your quickstart
[02:50:54] <cradek> my thinking is this might help with more common questions
[02:51:00] <SWPLinux> well, I hadn't gotten to the pin configs yet - mostly scales
[02:51:07] <SWPLinux> back in a sec
[02:51:07] <cradek> am I missing anything obvious?
[02:51:28] <jmkasunich> you could use net instead of newsig/link
[02:51:39] <cradek> do we have net now?
[02:51:48] <jmkasunich> but the latter might be nicer for an introductory doc
[02:51:51] <jmkasunich> yes, its backported
[02:51:55] <jmkasunich> yesterday
[02:52:30] <cradek> so for the last command, the equivalent command would be net Xlimits parport.pin-13-in axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in?
[02:52:44] <cradek> or do I need to say 'bit' somewhere?
[02:53:04] <jmkasunich> no need to say the type
[02:53:21] <jmkasunich> net declares the signal type to match the pin(s)
[02:53:48] <jepler> you can add an arrow if you like: net Xlimits parport.pin-13-in => axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
[02:55:10] <jmkasunich> to be honest, for people who don't yet "get" hal, the newsig and link might be better
[02:55:19] <cradek> http://pastebin.ca/324226 [end]
[02:55:42] <jmkasunich> that works
[02:56:04] <jmkasunich> might rephrase the comment, it sort of implies that you can only use net in this specific case
[02:56:07] <jmkasunich> lemme take a stab at it
[02:56:40] <cradek> huh, we had spindle-on => parport.pin9 by default, I wonder if that's good or bad
[02:57:44] <jmkasunich> http://pastebin.ca/324228
[02:58:38] <cradek> thanks
[02:59:50] <SWPLinux> hmmm. unfortunately, a one-page guide doesn't leave a lot of room for examples. and I think the HAL config needs examples
[03:04:41] <jmkasunich> I notice a _lot_ of stuff is being done in the 2.1 branch, instead of in trunk and then backporting
[03:05:00] <cradek> yeah that's going to bite us, isn't it
[03:05:03] <jmkasunich> its gonna be a bit of a chore figuring it out
[03:05:26] <jmkasunich> I understand the deb system being in 2.1, once its working good, move it as a lump
[03:05:41] <jmkasunich> but these scattered improvements would be a shame to lose because we forget to move them
[03:06:16] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[03:06:22] <jmkasunich> that's one
[03:06:23] <cradek> I should have kept the emails, but I deleted them all
[03:06:34] <jmkasunich> commit mails?
[03:06:37] <cradek> maybe someone who kept them all can easily spot the things we need to move
[03:06:38] <cradek> yes
[03:06:41] <jepler> I kept them
[03:06:54] <jepler> they might be on the sf archive if it's working these days
[03:07:11] <cradek> I didn't even know commit was arhcived
[03:07:25] <jepler> I guess I just assumed all lists were archive
[03:07:24] <jepler> d
[03:07:27] <jmkasunich> yeah, but that is painfull to use (as is my webmail) when you need to review many messages
[03:07:36] <jmkasunich> I'm pretty sure commit is archived
[03:07:48] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich checks
[03:08:03] <jmkasunich> yep
[03:08:19] <cradek> that's a good fallback then
[03:08:28] <jmkasunich> and its pretty up to date
[03:08:50] <cradek> what I need now is a nice relaxing weekend
[03:08:50] <jmkasunich> not perfect, maybe 8 hours old
[03:09:13] <jepler> I can write an mbox of commit mails in a date range pretty easily
[03:09:21] <jmkasunich> wow... the users archives (going back several years, since it was moved from NIST) has 7922 messages
[03:09:30] <jmkasunich> the commit list, which is newer, has 7849
[03:09:38] <jmkasunich> the dev list has 3947
[03:10:03] <jmkasunich> we have 640 subscribers to -users
[03:10:08] <jmkasunich> I remember when it was less than 300
[03:11:47] <SWPLinux> argh. it's hard to decide what's important for the quickstart (other than a list of pointers to other docs, once I figure out how to make those :) )
[03:12:14] <SWPLinux> I think the list is units, scale, parport setup, stepgen setup
[03:12:40] <SWPLinux> though stepgen setup also includes machine limits, and I don't want to write a primer on determining the limits of the machine
[03:13:13] <SWPLinux> and, speaking of limits, there are axis home and limit switches, travel limits ...
[03:13:15] <cradek> you have the honor? of writing the one document that most people will actually look at
[03:13:23] <SWPLinux> crap
[03:13:26] <SWPLinux> err - yay
[03:13:50] <SWPLinux> I'm not sure it can be kept to one page, expecially because I'm wordy :)
[03:13:57] <SWPLinux> s/x/s/
[03:14:26] <cradek> if you like, I'll help you take out words (really)
[03:15:04] <cradek> sometimes I'm ok at boiling things down
[03:15:04] <SWPLinux> lemme commit what I have. there isn't anything (useful) about stepgen or parport yet
[03:15:18] <SWPLinux> yep. a blank page is so intimidating. it's much easier for me to edit ...
[03:15:25] <cradek> yep
[03:15:48] <jmkasunich> thats why I'm making each new manpage by editing the prior one ;-)
[03:16:42] <cradek> I think the secret is don't worry about writing the first thing first, just write something you know needs to be there
[03:16:43] <jmkasunich> retch... function pid.0.do-pid-calcs.... what was I thinking
[03:16:50] <jmkasunich> today it would be "pid.0"
[03:17:16] <jmkasunich> names are only needed when there are multiple functions for a component
[03:17:55] <SWPLinux> pid.0.do-the-calculations-for-making-the-pid-of-number-0-for-to-make-better-the-great-country-of-Khazakstan
[03:18:15] <cradek> glorious?
[03:18:22] <SWPLinux> I knew I forgot something
[03:18:35] <jmkasunich> thats trashcanistan
[03:18:46] <SWPLinux> heh
[03:18:55] <jmkasunich> maker of fine quality machine tool accessories (the ones that are too cheap to have come from india)
[03:19:36] <cradek> must be a new day on CIA - my reign is over
[03:19:45] <jmkasunich> yep
[03:20:02] <jmkasunich> I had a brief but glorious reign at number 3
[03:20:50] <SWPLinux> a friend of mine was in the Philippines while in the air force. he had to get the drivers side door repaired on his Jeep, so he brings it to the shop. When he got it bach, they had fixed that door, by scavenging the hinge from the passenger side :)
[03:21:07] <SWPLinux> I think that's when he bought the Haines manual :)
[03:21:22] <SWPLinux> (/even worse than India story :) )
[03:21:42] <jmkasunich> and they probably had to mount the passenger side hinge upside down to make it fit on the drivers side
[03:22:01] <SWPLinux> something like that, though they may not have bothered
[03:22:09] <SWPLinux> it is a Jeep, so they may be the same
[03:22:17] <jmkasunich> barn hinges?
[03:22:20] <SWPLinux> (an older CJ-7)
[03:22:41] <SWPLinux> dunno - I wasn't there (thankfully)
[03:24:11] <SWPLinux> do you have to add a new dir to CVS separately? (or is it automatic when you add a file in the dir)
[03:24:23] <cradek> I've always done it separately
[03:24:26] <SWPLinux> ok
[03:30:31] <SWPLinux> gah. of course I forgot to save the latest version before copying it
[03:30:41] <jmkasunich> oops
[03:31:07] <SWPLinux> it's not too different - just got rid of the step N stuff and changed the wording of the steps
[03:36:55] <SWPLinux> it wasn't immediately obvious to me how to get that converted to pdf by make
[03:37:15] <SWPLinux> ls
[03:37:17] <SWPLinux> oops
[03:37:23] <jmkasunich> normally I just add new chapters to one of the master docs
[03:37:23] <cradek> ./ ../
[03:37:30] <SWPLinux> :P
[03:37:40] <jmkasunich> but I guess that isn't appropriate for a quick start gude
[03:37:43] <jmkasunich> guide
[03:37:50] <SWPLinux> probably not
[03:37:54] <jmkasunich> i kan spel gude
[03:38:00] <SWPLinux> mi 2
[03:39:39] <SWPLinux> ah. it looks like adding the file to both the DOC_SRCS and PDF_TARGETS would do it
[03:42:13] <jmkasunich> dang pid has a lot of parameters :-(
[03:55:53] <SWPLinux> I think I'm too tired to figure it out tonight.
[03:56:11] <SWPLinux> good night all
[03:56:16] <jmkasunich> I think I'm going to have to call it a night too
[03:56:24] <cradek> sounds smart
[03:56:29] <cradek> goodnight everyone
[03:56:32] <jmkasunich> I was hoping to finish the pid manpage, but I have to catch an early flight tomorrow
[03:56:37] <SWPLinux> I thikn all the swimming and hiking this weekend tired me out
[03:56:38] <jmkasunich> only a one day trip fortunately
[03:56:48] <SWPLinux> see you
[03:56:53] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[03:57:08] <cradek> SWPLinux: were you workign on getting it to build?
[03:57:14] <SWPadnos> trying to
[03:57:26] <cradek> sorry, I misunderstood, I would have helped
[03:57:32] <SWPadnos> if I understood makefiles, it would probably help :)
[03:57:41] <SWPadnos> no problem. I didn't say much about it
[03:57:45] <SWPadnos> (or ask for help)
[03:58:42] <SWPadnos> hmm. could you correct the spelling of my name on the CVS server?
[03:58:54] <SWPadnos> the first last name is "Wille" - no second 'i'
[03:59:02] <cradek> oops, sure
[03:59:21] <SWPadnos> (happens all the time :) - I can tell when people re-key my name ;) )
[03:59:30] <jmkasunich> huh, as long as I've known you, I assumed that was a middle name, and it was Willie
[03:59:36] <SWPadnos> nope
[03:59:43] <SWPadnos> dual last names, just like my wife
[03:59:51] <jmkasunich> (and I thought it a little strange that a grown man would be named Willie ;-)
[03:59:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:01:05] <jmkasunich> did they call you willie pete in the service, or was that before you had two last names?
[04:01:11] <SWPadnos> waaaay before :)
[04:01:42] <SWPadnos> they called me "the brain" in basic training
[04:02:05] <SWPadnos> it probably wasn't always complementary
[04:02:05] <jmkasunich> oh boy...
[04:03:09] <jmkasunich> dammit, man formatting is a pain
[04:03:37] <SWPadnos> there's a package called something like "manedit", but it's nearly useless
[04:03:42] <jmkasunich> .TP gives you a paragraph where the first line starts to the left (title line) and the rest is indented
[04:03:44] <SWPadnos> or it was when I looked at it last
[04:04:07] <jmkasunich> used for hal pins - the pin name, and its type and direction, are on the first line, the rest is the description
[04:04:15] <jmkasunich> works fine when you have one name per description
[04:04:55] <jmkasunich> but if you want to put "phase-A" and "phase-B" as a two line "title" with a single paragraph afterwards, it seems impossible
[04:05:34] <jmkasunich> (at least without having a blank line between the two titles)
[04:08:38] <cradek> SWPLinux: I got it to build the pdf - want me to check it in?
[04:08:46] <SWPadnos> sure
[04:09:39] <SWPadnos> can it easily be made to do all the .lyx files in the quickstart dir? (or is that what you did?)
[04:10:06] <cradek> you'll have to add some bits, but you'll be able to see what to do now that there's an example
[04:10:14] <SWPadnos> ok
[04:10:15] <SWPadnos> thanks
[04:10:22] <cradek> welcome, and goodnight
[04:11:33] <SWPadnos> finally ;)
[04:13:31] <SWPadnos> ah. I was missing the quickstart dir in the new target
[04:13:36] <SWPadnos> (plus I missed the clean target additions)
[04:21:48] <cradek> not sure I got it all right - I think it's not getting made into html
[04:22:30] <SWPadnos> I'm not here, but it's only in the pdf targets, not the HTML targets
[04:23:34] <cradek> oh, yes it is, it's fine
[04:24:02] <cradek> ~/emc2.v2_1_branch/docs/html/quickstart/stepper_quickstart/index.html
[04:24:38] <cradek> ok, goodnight again :-)
[04:25:05] <SWPadnos> heh - see you. I'll try and un-crapify it a bittomorrow
[19:43:25] <cradek> huh, here I don't get the applications/cnc menu
[19:45:35] <jepler> grumble
[19:45:44] <jepler> I thought I had that all wored out :(
[19:46:29] <skunkwork> whored?
[19:46:29] <cradek> I do have all the files... very strange
[19:46:44] <jepler> worked
[19:46:50] <jepler> skunkwork: did you lose an "s"?
[19:47:43] <skunkwork> :) either way. Very nice work - and the code looks so short ;)
[19:48:03] <skunkwork> (on the preview)
[19:48:28] <skunkwork> for what it does. - god I am not making any sense.
[20:01:58] <alex_joni> cradek: odd..
[20:02:09] <alex_joni> not even after a gnome-panel restart?
[20:04:08] <cradek> no
[20:04:11] <alex_joni> works ok here
[20:04:33] <alex_joni> this is running gnome, right?
[20:04:38] <cradek> yes
[21:57:01] <alex_joni> darn..
[21:57:12] <alex_joni> the help file for tkemc/xemc is not ok
[21:58:00] <alex_joni> I have 2 options to fix it #1 (install the help files to $(DESTDIR)$(docsdir) instead of $(DESTDIR)$(docsdir)/help )
[21:58:43] <alex_joni> or #2 change configure to set HELP dir to /usr/share/doc/emc2/help instead of /usr/share/doc/emc2
[21:58:56] <alex_joni> I'll do #1 unless someone has an objection
[21:59:14] <jepler> I don't know the problem in detail but that sounds OK to me
[21:59:33] <alex_joni> it's no big thing, but I feel more comfortable touching Makefile than configure atm
[21:59:43] <alex_joni> less breaking-prone :)