#emc-devel | Logs for 2006-12-06

[13:52:57] <jepler> skunkworks: did you look over that document? http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/pluto_servo.html
[13:55:02] <skunkworks> jepler: yes. It looks good to me. Although I was really hoping to sue you when I drill a hole through my hand.
[13:59:54] <jepler> skunkworks: I figured you would
[14:00:34] <jepler> skunkworks: that's why you have two hands: one is the spare
[14:01:57] <skunkworks> once I get to the point of playing with it - I am sure I will have more questions.
[14:02:01] <jepler> I'm sure too
[14:07:06] <rayh> Hi jeff. typo at "The wire carrying the nInitialize signal"
[14:07:11] <rayh> Looks great.
[14:07:19] <rayh> Wish I had a pluto.
[14:09:10] <skunkworks> rayh: they are cheap
[14:09:16] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is cheap
[14:10:15] <rayh> * rayh is more cheaper yet>
[14:10:21] <rayh> How you doing today?
[14:14:15] <skunkworks> Good. No major issues ;)
[14:20:29] <skunkworks> rayh: if things go well - we should have another i/o board option. 72 i/o
[14:20:50] <skunkworks> pci
[14:22:20] <rayh> pci?
[14:22:38] <rayh> The pluto doc says parport epp.
[14:23:32] <skunkworks> http://www.futurlec.com/PCI8255.shtml
[14:23:42] <skunkworks> separate from the pluto
[14:26:55] <rayh> Nice.
[14:28:18] <skunkworks> cold up there? ;)
[14:29:34] <rayh> I'm over in Ann Arbor right now. Not bad at all here.
[14:30:13] <rayh> Is there a spec sheet on that board. I don't see a link.
[14:30:54] <alex_joni> hi ray
[14:30:58] <skunkworks> They sent me the wrong cd. jepler has a chineese version of it - they are supposidly sending me the correct info.
[14:32:32] <skunkworks> Hi alex
[14:33:25] <jepler> skunkworks: thai
[14:34:31] <skunkworks> babelfish won't convert it ;)
[14:34:35] <skunkworks> ?
[14:34:51] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is trying to be funny
[14:35:41] <jepler> rayh: I'm not sure I understand what the typo is. Is it the word "wire"? I changed it to: The trace carrying the nInitialize signal is also available on the top
[14:35:45] <jepler> side at FPGA pin 81 or the nearby via.
[14:35:53] <jepler> probably I'm missing something here
[14:36:09] <jepler> I felt it *woosh* right over my head
[14:36:27] <cradek> jepler: I bet he means nInitialize which does look like a typo
[14:36:34] <skunkworks> I think he thought you ment initialize
[14:36:59] <skunkworks> meant
[14:37:00] <jepler> oh .. no, the parallel port signal is really called nInitialize -- it's active low
[14:39:01] <rayh> Ah my problem. Dislyxia attacks again.
[14:39:16] <jepler> maybe I should just skip saying what the pin is called
[14:40:05] <skunkworks> I would need a pin number ;)
[14:40:07] <cradek> seeing nA instead of /A (or overbar-A) is strange to me
[14:40:33] <jepler> A jumper wire must be soldered from parallel port pin 16 to FPGA pin 51. ... The trace carrying this signal is also available on the top side at FPGA pin 81 or the nearby via.
[14:40:46] <skunkworks> nice
[14:41:17] <cradek> not really... that's going to be pretty challenging for a lot of people
[14:42:08] <skunkworks> soldering?
[14:42:16] <jepler> soldering to a .5mm pitch pin
[14:42:21] <skunkworks> right
[14:42:38] <cradek> at least it's on the end of the row
[14:43:10] <skunkworks> you say it has a via - I would find a small enough wire to fit through and solder that way.
[14:43:33] <cradek> just the parport end is a via
[14:43:35] <jepler> ooh, the documentation is still bad
[14:43:38] <jepler> it's not clear what "this signal" is
[14:44:19] <skunkworks> hmm need to find the altera pdf again
[14:45:03] <jepler> ... The parallel port signal is also available on the top side at FPGA pin 81
[14:45:13] <jepler> I hate writing docs
[14:45:56] <skunkworks> so there is no via near pin 81?
[14:46:13] <skunkworks> ok I will shut up now
[14:46:55] <jepler> skunkworks: it's important that the documentation make this part clear, so please keep helping me find a clear way to say what I mean.
[14:47:16] <jepler> skunkworks: FPGA pin 81, parallel port 16, and this "nearby via" are all wired together already.
[14:47:34] <skunkworks> I got it - just took me a bit.
[14:47:49] <skunkworks> so pin 51 does not have a via near it.
[14:47:55] <jepler> You need to add a wire from one of those locations to FPGA pin 51, which doesn't have a convenient via or large-spacing pin it also connects to
[14:47:57] <rayh> clarity is not my best act.
[14:48:09] <skunkworks> ok
[14:48:18] <skunkworks> that will be a pain. did you guys do it?
[14:48:29] <jepler> cradek did
[14:49:56] <jepler> and just after that we discovered that the FPGA was damaged. coincidence?
[14:50:03] <cradek> hey!
[14:50:22] <jepler> hm .. I need to read the PDF again
[14:50:42] <jepler> I just realized that it's possible that only the user pins are 5V tolerant
[14:50:58] <jepler> and that's not a user pin
[14:51:42] <cradek> rayh: can most mill spindles stop and reverse without a lot of screwing around like switching gears?
[14:52:03] <cradek> jepler: uh-oh
[14:52:36] <skunkworks> ok.. glad I have not had time to play with mine ;)
[14:53:56] <skunkworks> jepler: try not to fondle the pci8255 board too much.. it is pretty sexy.
[14:54:53] <skunkworks> jepler: do you have the link to the pinout pdf?
[14:55:03] <jepler> eek again -- the pluto-p design uses VCCint = VCCio = 3.3v -- for VCCint that's inside the Absolute Maximum Ratings, but not within Recommended Operating Conditions.
[14:55:21] <jepler> VCCio is good at 3.3v, but VCCint is supposed to be under 2.625v
[14:55:25] <jepler> maybe this board sucks
[14:55:42] <jepler> skunkworks: this is the thai pdf: http://www.etteam.com/download/10PC_INTERFACE/1008/Man_ET_PCI8255_V3.pdf
[14:56:04] <jepler> skunkworks: is that what you meant?
[14:56:10] <skunkworks> (I ment for the acex chip)
[14:56:15] <skunkworks> but thanks
[14:56:38] <jepler> skunkworks: http://www.altera.com/literature/dp/acex/ep1k10.pdf
[15:09:52] <skunkworks> so printer pin voltages to pin 51 was probably bad?
[15:12:31] <jepler> I haven't figured that out for sure one way or the other
[15:12:56] <jepler> let me just say that I'm not going to immediately wire the next one up that way
[15:13:43] <jepler> one of the first indications that something was funny was VCC going up to about 4V when plugged into the parallel port -- and that was after adding that jumper wire
[15:14:27] <cradek> jepler: I'm a little amazed we didn't make that connection
[15:16:04] <jepler> I'm making it now :-P
[15:17:00] <rayh> Hi cradek Yes reversing is a motor direction thing. Gearing is not usually the same.
[15:19:28] <cradek> I'm a bit confused, did you mean 'not usually'?
[15:20:47] <cradek> what I'm trying to understand is if most mill spindles can turn forward, stop, then turn reverse in a pretty clean way (for instance no "nudging" back and forth to get gears to mesh)
[15:21:05] <rayh> If the spindle is in one gear, it stays in that gear when the motor direction is reversed.
[15:21:13] <skunkworks> all of our spindles just switch motor direction.
[15:21:16] <cradek> ok
[15:21:18] <rayh> Right.
[15:21:20] <cradek> that's good to hear
[15:21:44] <skunkworks> cradek: rigid tapping?
[15:22:02] <cradek> yeah but I'm only working on it in my head so far
[15:22:37] <skunkworks> :) I can see the issue with our big mill - the encoder is going to have to be right at the spindle for it to work.
[15:22:56] <cradek> yeah belts/gearboxes are trouble I bet
[15:22:57] <skunkworks> otherwise there is too much gear lash
[15:23:30] <cradek> brb
[15:23:47] <skunkworks> do you count the pins counter clock wise?
[15:23:49] <skunkworks> on the fpga
[15:24:06] <skunkworks> * skunkworks isn't soldering anything yet ;)
[15:26:57] <jepler> skunkworks: yes. With the index mark on the upper left (parallel port connector on top), "pin 51" is the bottom pin on the right side, near the LED.
[15:27:17] <skunkworks> so pin 51 is on th right side - lowest pin.
[15:27:25] <skunkworks> ah
[15:27:28] <skunkworks> makes sense
[15:27:57] <skunkworks> probably wait to solder the headers in until this gets straitened out.
[15:27:58] <skunkworks> :)
[15:28:54] <skunkworks> as jepler said - atleast it is on the end
[15:29:02] <skunkworks> cradek I mean :)
[15:30:59] <skunkworks> simple resister brige may work. one from the printer port pin - to pin 51 and then to ground. If that is the issue.
[15:32:21] <jepler> unfortunately, that's quite cumbersome
[15:32:46] <jepler> well, for now I'll just strike out that paragraph in the docs and look for something else when the new boards arrive
[15:58:38] <jepler> Other parallel port signals are connected to special-purpose FPGA pins, such as DCLK and DATA for the serial programming
[16:02:50] <skunkworks> so those pins can handle it?
[16:17:05] <jepler> that's the way the fpga4fun guy set the board up, is that enough of a non-answer for you?
[16:21:46] <skunkworks> good enough
[16:23:38] <skunkworks> I suppose you could probe the fpga pin - to see what the acutall logic voltage is. (compared to the printer port)
[16:24:16] <skunkworks> maybe they are doing some sort of reduction.
[16:24:20] <skunkworks> some how.
[16:25:48] <jepler> I don't think there are enough components whose purpose I haven't identified to do that
[16:25:51] <skunkworks> or not - I see traces going from the printer port directly to the pins
[16:25:59] <skunkworks> fpga pins
[17:25:08] <skunkworks> cradek: did you notice a difference having more than 5 pwm levels? ;)
[17:27:46] <cradek> yes it's much smoother and quieter
[17:29:09] <skunkworks> DaveE tuning directions are being added to my info.
[17:29:53] <alex_joni> skunkworks: you do know that we are lacking that info from the integrators Manual.. don't you
[17:30:04] <alex_joni> so please use some intelligible language when you write it :-P
[17:30:31] <skunkworks> That may be a good idea.
[17:30:33] <skunkworks> :)
[17:32:12] <cradek> I'm surprised his moves end in the right place with I=0
[17:33:17] <cradek> but I agree finding good I,D are harder than P,FF1,FF2
[17:33:55] <alex_joni> cradek: ff1 might help getting rid of I
[17:34:14] <cradek> true
[17:34:47] <cradek> but without I you can push the axis off position and it won't really go back
[17:37:05] <alex_joni> probably so
[17:48:03] <jepler> skunkworks: pci-8255 arrived
[17:48:24] <jepler> lunchtime!
[17:49:16] <alex_joni> you're not gonna eat it? are you?
[17:49:37] <skunkworks> jepler: cool isn't it?
[17:51:46] <skunkworks> alex_joni: over his head?
[17:52:20] <alex_joni> skunkworks: way and beyond
[18:17:06] <skunkworks> wow.
[18:17:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> heh
[18:17:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra> interesting
[18:18:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler must have very strange taste
[18:18:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ;)
[18:49:45] <alex_joni> jepler: what's the keyboard shortcut for program run?
[18:49:49] <alex_joni> in AXIS?
[19:23:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> r?
[19:26:20] <jepler> yes, 'r'
[19:32:22] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: mmmm crunchy
[19:42:09] <skunkworks> :)
[19:49:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> was it rohs or leaded?
[19:52:13] <skunkworks> I usually save the socketed componants for last.
[19:53:05] <SWPadnos> leaded tastes better
[19:53:16] <SWPadnos> but like most things, if it tastes good, it's probably bad for you :)
[19:56:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> haha
[19:56:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that's true
[19:56:47] <skunkworks> sometime I stick the solder in my mouth when I need an extra hand. probably bad huh.
[19:57:33] <skunkworks> explains a lot though.. doesn't it?
[19:58:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> O.O
[19:58:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I don't do that
[19:58:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I don't plan to either
[19:58:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra> silver solder, possibly (that's the 60/40 silver tin solder)
[19:59:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> definetly not the type with a flux core
[20:00:26] <SWPadnos> flux smoke is bad, but it's the lead that eventually turns you into a drooling idiot
[20:00:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra> that's true, but the flux material itself is also toxic
[20:01:17] <SWPadnos> hmmm - isn't it just some tree resin?
[20:01:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> but hey, too much silver and you'll look nice too :p
[20:01:33] <SWPadnos> kills bacteria!
[20:01:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra> hmm, afaik it's a concoction of various toxic stuff
[20:02:25] <SWPadnos> there's acid core as well, which is certainly bad for you, but I thought the rosin core was fairly benign
[20:02:34] <jepler> skunkworks: which end do you stick in your mouth?
[20:03:28] <cradek> just like onion rings, don't eat too much, and don't worry about it
[20:06:03] <SWPadnos> ugh - my wife just got home
[20:06:09] <cradek> ?
[20:06:13] <jepler> and this is a bad thing?
[20:06:22] <SWPadnos> normally that would be a good thing, but we found out today that our cdat is terminally ill
[20:06:23] <SWPadnos> cat
[20:06:38] <SWPadnos> we probably need to have him put to sleep later this week :(
[20:06:40] <cradek> oh no, very sorry to hear that
[20:06:52] <SWPadnos> me too, thanks
[20:07:01] <jepler> :(
[20:07:19] <jepler> I'm sorry to hear that, too
[20:07:40] <SWPadnos> thanks
[20:07:52] <cradek> did he have a long happy life so far?
[20:08:04] <SWPadnos> he's 14+ years old, and I think he's been pretty happy
[20:08:31] <SWPadnos> he wasn't too happy during the move from Austin, TX, but he's adjusted pretty well in the last 11 years ;)
[20:08:36] <cradek> a long happy life is the best any cat (or person) can hope for
[20:09:14] <SWPadnos> and a short, reasonably happy death - don't forget that ...
[20:09:17] <cradek> and cats can have a long happy life with no suffering at the end, while people don't have the same privilege
[20:09:23] <cradek> exactly
[20:09:26] <SWPadnos> yeah - funny, isn't it?
[20:09:58] <cradek> not the word I would pick :-/
[20:10:04] <SWPadnos> true
[20:10:08] <cradek> but be glad you can do the right thing for him
[20:10:17] <SWPadnos> funny "strange", not funny "ha ha"
[20:10:21] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:10:47] <cradek> (hope that helps a little) :-(
[20:11:25] <SWPadnos> well - I've been thinking about it for a while - he's spent the last two days in my lap (more insistenyly htan usual), so I knew something was up
[20:11:50] <SWPadnos> but when my wife comes home, goes ofer to pet him, then starts sobbing, it gets harder :(
[20:11:54] <SWPadnos> over
[20:12:20] <cradek> heck, sorry.
[20:12:41] <SWPadnos> heh -not much you can do, but thanks for the support
[20:13:30] <skunkworks> Sorry to hear that also. I dread the day when one of our dies. My wife will fall apart also.
[20:14:15] <jepler> I'll be the one in my household to fall apart
[20:16:04] <skunkworks> I grew up on a 'farm'.. It was rough when I was younger, but I think I am pretty numb to that sort of thing now.
[20:16:16] <skunkworks> although time will tell
[20:16:38] <SWPadnos> yeah - we had 10-20 cats at a time when I was growing up - I've buried enough of them to be somewhat immune
[20:16:41] <SWPadnos> not totally though :(
[20:17:15] <skunkworks> 'don't name the chickens'
[20:17:47] <alex_joni> ha
[20:22:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra> all of my previous cats have 'dissapeared' (probably hunted by wild animals like a fox or something) when they got old
[20:22:40] <SWPadnos> I've found one or two in the cellar that did that.
[20:23:15] <SWPadnos> I think Olliver (our cat) was looking for a place to rest last night - he was rooting around in boxes and behind stuff in my office
[20:28:36] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/happycats.JPG
[20:31:07] <skunkworks> spoiled rotten.
[20:31:34] <skunkworks> jepler: card has some nice weight to it. (smells good too)
[20:40:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> skunkworks: :) nice cats. they tolerate each other? my two cats (sisters) don't get closer than 50cm to each other, and hiss at each other occasionally
[20:40:11] <jepler> skunkworks: well as you know I thought it smelled so good I couldn't resist eating it
[20:40:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: you'll have to buy a new one before you can devel though
[20:42:35] <SWPadnos> jepler will shit the correct code in a few hours :)
[20:42:49] <jepler> SWPadnos: that's a very vivid image
[20:42:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:42:59] <alex_joni> jepler: quick.. eat the pluto too
[20:43:01] <SWPadnos> eat card -> shit driver. makes sense, no?
[20:43:03] <alex_joni> it will be a nice addition
[20:43:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra> if only coding was that automatic
[20:43:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> heh
[20:43:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> getting the driver into the computer may be messy
[20:44:03] <alex_joni> yay .. scanner
[20:44:22] <alex_joni> maybe it's binary blobs
[21:04:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra> O_O
[21:04:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra> TMI