#emc-devel | Logs for 2006-06-18

[00:00:07] <alex_joni> there is only one thing I see interesting in the newer kernels (especially in 2.6.17) and that is RAID-5 improved support
[00:00:51] <alex_joni> you will be able to add/remove disks from the RAID-5 while running, and increase the size dinamically
[00:00:59] <jmkasunich> I thought raid already worked well
[00:01:14] <alex_joni> it did.. but you couldn't alter the size of the RAID
[00:01:41] <alex_joni> now you can add a new disk, and make the RAID bigger
[00:01:56] <alex_joni> without a new install, format, partition, etc
[00:03:31] <alex_joni> the other nice thing is Xen
[00:11:10] <jmkasunich> what is xen?
[00:12:42] <alex_joni> some Virtualisation technology
[00:13:50] <alex_joni> running multiple OS'es on the same hardware at the same time
[00:14:02] <jmkasunich> like vmworks or qemu?
[00:14:34] <alex_joni> Xen is a virtual machine monitor (VMM) for x86-compatible computers. Xen can securely execute multiple virtual machines, each running its own OS, on a single physical system with close-to-native performance.
[00:14:43] <jmkasunich> yeah, reading the website
[00:14:57] <jmkasunich> seems like it requires the guest OS to be "ported" aka patched
[00:15:05] <jmkasunich> which means that doze can't be a guest OS
[00:15:09] <jmkasunich> (legally)
[00:15:16] <alex_joni> probably one of the reasons why vmware releases his stuff for free now
[00:15:23] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: yeah, probably so
[00:15:43] <jmkasunich> from website "A port of Windows XP was developed for an earlier version of Xen, but is not available for release due to licence restrictions."
[00:15:51] <alex_joni> "However Xen 3.0 added Intel VT-x support to enable the running of unmodified guest operating systems, including Windows XP & 2003 Server, using hardware virtualization technology. We are working on implementing support for the equivalent AMD Pacifica technology."
[00:16:22] <alex_joni> from XenFaq section ;-P
[00:17:28] <jmkasunich> does look interesting
[00:17:41] <jmkasunich> it looks like you can use it even with kernel 2.4
[00:18:03] <jmkasunich> why do you associate it with 2.6.17?
[00:18:45] <alex_joni> I think it will be merged into the kernel at some point
[00:18:50] <jmkasunich> ah
[00:18:55] <alex_joni> not sure though
[00:19:06] <alex_joni> I know it probably will eb in edgy
[00:19:15] <jmkasunich> if its working now, maybe I should use it instead of vm for the compile farm?
[00:19:29] <alex_joni> yeah, but it means you need to patch all the kernels
[00:19:40] <alex_joni> even the ones on the 2.xx BDI
[00:19:47] <alex_joni> which means.. lots of work
[00:20:13] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: if I were you I would give vmserver a go..
[00:20:18] <alex_joni> it seems to be running great
[00:20:45] <alex_joni> I have a vmdk for dapper
[00:20:55] <alex_joni> 2.5 GB ;) so kinda long download
[00:21:20] <jmkasunich> good point about the patching
[00:21:53] <jmkasunich> open office has one thing in common with M$ office....
[00:21:56] <jmkasunich> it crashes
[00:21:59] <alex_joni> lol
[00:22:09] <alex_joni> and eats up lots of memory
[00:22:40] <jmkasunich> tried to view a powerpoint from the xen site
[00:22:46] <jmkasunich> after about 6 pages it barfed
[00:24:18] <alex_joni> powerpoint support is rather bad in OO
[00:24:38] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders why Xen people would release powerpoints...
[00:24:45] <alex_joni> that seems rather odd
[00:24:46] <jmkasunich> dunno
[00:24:59] <jmkasunich> the slides I saw seemed aimed at business types
[00:24:59] <alex_joni> doze people wouldn't really care about Xen
[00:25:11] <alex_joni> I know.. but still
[00:25:19] <jmkasunich> doesn't matter
[00:25:24] <jmkasunich> you really should go to sleep
[00:25:29] <jmkasunich> and I should get busy
[00:25:41] <jmkasunich> I have a big machining job that I will be working on all summer
[00:25:44] <alex_joni> or the other way around ;)
[00:25:47] <jmkasunich> should get started
[00:25:48] <alex_joni> machining?
[00:25:51] <jmkasunich> yeah
[00:25:58] <jmkasunich> making a test fixture for a lab
[00:26:10] <alex_joni> nice
[00:26:16] <jmkasunich> lots of work tho
[00:26:22] <jmkasunich> 100-120 hours or so
[00:26:26] <jmkasunich> maybe more
[00:27:19] <alex_joni> wow
[00:28:00] <alex_joni> btw, did you see this plasma: http://dallur.com/index.php?id=44&tx_lzgallery_pi1[subg]=10&tx_lzgallery_pi1[showUid]=41 ?
[00:31:10] <alex_joni> Rugludallur (maybe seen him in #emc) is building it
[00:34:43] <jmkasunich> big
[00:37:44] <alex_joni> ok,I'm off to bed..
[00:37:53] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[00:37:57] <alex_joni> only was able to make 3 slides :/
[00:38:14] <alex_joni> see you tomorrow.. I guess
[11:25:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> Lerneaen_Hydra_ is now known as Lerneaen_Hydra
[13:21:19] <kerry_> kerry_ is now known as rayh
[14:50:28] <alex_joni> hi dan
[14:52:44] <dan_falck> hi alex
[14:53:02] <dan_falck> went to go make some coffee
[14:54:02] <dan_falck> how are things going?
[14:54:27] <alex_joni> pretty good
[14:54:37] <alex_joni> it's getting warm fast ;)
[14:54:44] <alex_joni> we'll have ~100F tomorrow
[14:55:05] <dan_falck> that is warm
[14:55:44] <dan_falck> I installed EMC2 on my Breezy machine. Been running sim mode. It's nice.
[14:55:59] <dan_falck> I really like Ubuntu also
[14:56:05] <dan_falck> thanks for setting that up
[14:56:22] <dan_falck> It's my main linux box now
[14:57:05] <alex_joni> great
[14:57:11] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is happy to hear that
[14:57:20] <dan_falck> I have been playing with an application called Varkon (CAD) and am learning to hack it now
[14:57:31] <alex_joni> I think I heard about it before
[14:57:38] <dan_falck> also been looking at how Axis is set up
[14:57:51] <dan_falck> I am learning python, so I can kind of see how things work
[14:58:01] <dan_falck> open source is great
[14:58:05] <alex_joni> yeah, it is
[14:58:58] <dan_falck> is there a way to tie in the cp tcl conversational cam stuff with one of the emc guis?
[14:59:21] <dan_falck> drop it in to a directory and make it work as a script?
[14:59:22] <alex_joni> there is always a way ;)
[14:59:28] <dan_falck> yes there is
[14:59:32] <alex_joni> but I never looked at the cp stuff.. so I couldn't say
[14:59:33] <fenn> you could put it in one of the menus pretty easily
[15:01:21] <dan_falck> I have sort of figured out how to drop small apps into python programs using the 'exec' command
[15:01:42] <dan_falck> there's probably something similar in tcl
[15:01:52] <alex_joni> probably ;)
[15:02:16] <dan_falck> I am enjoying it, learning python anyway
[15:02:34] <alex_joni> $scriptsmenu add command -label $fname -command "exec $TCLSCRIPTS/$file -- -ini $EMC_INIFILE &"
[15:02:48] <alex_joni> that adds an entry to tkemc's Scripts menu
[15:02:54] <dan_falck> ok thanks
[15:03:24] <fenn> unfortunately multiple MDI lines don't add up the same way as a full gcode file does, or it'd be easy to just dump all the cp1 data into MDI
[15:03:47] <fenn> but you could write out to a temp file and read that into one of the gui's
[15:03:55] <dan_falck> yes
[15:06:32] <dan_falck> I am going out to the garage to try some of this. thanks
[17:22:02] <alex_joni> hi chris
[17:22:15] <cradek> hi
[17:22:32] <alex_joni> finished my presentation ;) yay
[17:22:36] <cradek> yay
[17:22:48] <alex_joni> now I need to pack :(
[17:23:03] <cradek> how long will you be gone this time?
[17:23:11] <alex_joni> till thursday night
[17:23:21] <alex_joni> only 4 days
[17:23:24] <cradek> ok
[21:23:44] <kerry_> kerry_ is now known as rayh
[21:23:56] <SWPadnos> hi Ray. how goes it?
[21:24:09] <rayh> Hi Steven
[21:24:22] <rayh> Survived another day.
[21:24:37] <SWPadnos> yea!
[21:24:49] <SWPadnos> amazingly enough, it's friggin hot here
[21:24:53] <rayh> Visited qingdao and ate lots of seafood.
[21:24:58] <SWPadnos> yummy
[21:25:03] <rayh> some strange critters mixed in there.
[21:25:17] <SWPadnos> staring back at you
[21:25:31] <rayh> entertained the entire restaurant with my chop-stick inability
[21:25:43] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:26:27] <rayh> I am simply amazed with the machine tool manufacturing here
[21:26:43] <SWPadnos> quantity, quality, or both?
[21:26:55] <rayh> quality and variety.
[21:27:27] <rayh> There are at least four local controls
[21:27:36] <rayh> PC based it looks like.
[21:28:00] <SWPadnos> interesting
[21:28:01] <rayh> some are dual computer, Linux on the motion and ms on the display
[21:28:31] <rayh> I'll see if I can get a look behind the displays once we get into the factories.
[21:28:36] <SWPadnos> have you noticed what medium they use to sommunicate? (serial, ethernet ...)
[21:28:41] <SWPadnos> communicate, that is
[21:29:05] <rayh> The "domestic" controls seem to be primitive
[21:29:20] <rayh> I see a lot of db9 and db35
[21:29:37] <SWPadnos> ok. serial and proprietary parallel then (most likely)
[21:29:40] <rayh> and quite a few 50 pin ribbon
[21:30:11] <rayh> My impression is that the db25 is IO rather than bus.
[21:30:33] <SWPadnos> yep - that was my idea, but DB9 is very likely serial
[21:30:40] <rayh> Or is like the mesa card Aram is using to talk to drives.
[21:31:00] <rayh> The domestic drives are really old school
[21:31:16] <rayh> big and klunky
[21:31:51] <rayh> I saw one distributor/maker of panasonic that looked like state of the art ac
[21:31:54] <SWPadnos> I imagine the hardware is good, the UI / copmuter stuff is good, but the electronics in between aren't all that great
[21:32:22] <rayh> Right. Many companies are making very nice AC motors with encoders.
[21:32:45] <rayh> Really compact for the power and torque supplied
[21:33:08] <rayh> There are some very nice steppers motors as well.
[21:33:30] <SWPadnos> are the 5-phase all that common?
[21:33:30] <rayh> Looks like they have the magnetics pretty well down.
[21:33:34] <rayh> Very
[21:34:28] <rayh> Every factory wants them but complain about the drives
[21:34:40] <SWPadnos> I'm sure it's a PITA
[21:34:47] <rayh> Yep.
[21:35:15] <rayh> The drive issue seems to me to be what gives fanuc, siemens, and mitts their advantage.
[21:35:27] <SWPadnos> I think those are wired similarly to 3-phase AC motors - in "super-delta" or "super-wye" modes
[21:35:35] <SWPadnos> 5-sire or 10-wire
[21:35:39] <SWPadnos> gah - wire
[21:35:55] <rayh> The ones I've got are 5 wire
[21:36:22] <rayh> I've seen 6
[21:36:23] <SWPadnos> ok. that gives interesting things when you consider that the 5 taps are more or less connected in a circle
[21:36:32] <SWPadnos> 6 would be unipolar, I think
[21:36:33] <rayh> Exactly
[21:37:10] <rayh> Seems to me that the circle allows for some interesting stepping combinations.
[21:37:24] <rayh> half step would be just about trivial
[21:37:25] <SWPadnos> err - yeah, interesting ;)
[21:37:42] <SWPadnos> sort of. you still get half current in the wrong direction, two taps down
[21:37:47] <rayh> .06 degree
[21:38:01] <rayh> was the listing on one set of motors
[21:38:06] <SWPadnos> wow
[21:38:32] <rayh> bit of trouble with my comprehension since this was a domestic trade show.
[21:38:43] <SWPadnos> well, that would be 6000 steps/rev
[21:38:47] <SWPadnos> that's a lot
[21:39:17] <SWPadnos> isn't the normal resolution of a 5-ph stepper closer to 500 steps/rev? (.72deg/step or soemthing)
[21:39:20] <rayh> They were running torque curves based on pps rather than rpm.
[21:39:52] <rayh> Something like that.
[21:40:07] <rayh> usually dual rated.
[21:40:30] <SWPadnos> ok, similar to the slo-syn synchronous/stepper motors, maybe
[21:40:55] <rayh> I don't have a clue about the internal geometry.
[21:41:26] <rayh> but twisting the shaft while disconnected makes you think it is a really cheap motor
[21:41:30] <SWPadnos> get a cheapo, for destructive testing ;)
[21:41:45] <rayh> big steps between resting positions.
[21:41:57] <rayh> I should find a small one and do that.
[21:42:15] <SWPadnos> sure - you still have ~3.6 or 7.2 degrees per full electrical cycle
[21:42:21] <rayh> The ones I've got available are 34 dual stack
[21:42:32] <SWPadnos> what kind of torque range?
[21:42:45] <rayh> 800+
[21:42:57] <SWPadnos> not bad at all. any NEMA 42?
[21:43:13] <rayh> I have not seen any
[21:43:25] <alex_joni> hi & bye guys ;)
[21:43:28] <SWPadnos> hmmm. was thinking of testing out on the BP
[21:43:35] <alex_joni> I'm back on thursday
[21:43:37] <SWPadnos> hi Alex. see you Friday or so ;)
[21:43:38] <rayh> I've seen tripple stack 34
[21:43:41] <rayh> Hi alex
[21:43:44] <rayh> by alex
[21:43:44] <alex_joni> hi ray
[21:43:47] <alex_joni> ;)
[21:43:53] <rayh> traveling?
[21:44:00] <alex_joni> rayh: work..
[21:44:06] <alex_joni> but to greece.. so it's not that bad :D
[21:44:09] <rayh> ah.
[21:44:10] <alex_joni> bubye
[21:44:12] <rayh> Nice.
[21:44:22] <SWPadnos> no - Nice is in France ;)
[21:44:27] <alex_joni> need to get up in 4 hours to catch a plane
[21:44:36] <rayh> slap that man around some
[21:44:40] <alex_joni> later all you
[21:44:41] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:44:43] <SWPadnos> see you
[21:44:52] <rayh> have a good trip
[21:45:10] <SWPadnos> enjoy all the Greec-y food :)
[21:45:31] <rayh> I've seen specs out to 1500 ounce inch in size 34
[21:45:42] <SWPadnos> ok. that would work on a BP
[21:46:36] <rayh> And with real encoder feedback it would be an iinteresting solution
[21:46:45] <SWPadnos> yep
[21:46:57] <rayh> Gotta get to breakfast.
[21:47:02] <rayh> catch you later.
[21:47:12] <SWPadnos> it seems that we may want to have a "stepper PID" module, that can slow things down when needed
[21:47:16] <SWPadnos> ok. see you around
[21:47:34] <rayh> Yes. sorta based on the adaptive notions
[21:47:38] <SWPadnos> yep
[21:47:54] <SWPadnos> but stepper mode "ok, you're trying as hard as you can"
[21:48:02] <SWPadnos> instead of servo mode "push it harder"
[21:48:05] <rayh> exactly
[21:48:33] <rayh> been trying to think of a serial protocol that would querry devices
[21:48:46] <SWPadnos> jepler wrote a small driver recently
[21:48:52] <SWPadnos> "spp
[21:48:58] <rayh> and install relevant HAL modules based on the answer.
[21:49:02] <SWPadnos> "spp" or something like that "simplest possible protocol"
[21:49:11] <SWPadnos> ah - that would be cool
[21:49:12] <rayh> really. I'll have to study when I get back.
[21:49:15] <SWPadnos> userspace, too
[21:49:23] <SWPadnos> (yours, not his)
[21:49:29] <rayh> Okay. That works.
[21:50:12] <rayh> Control panels can work in user if rt doesn't take to much time.
[21:50:24] <rayh> gotta run. guys are glaring at me.
[21:50:35] <SWPadnos> actually, the RT implementation of jogwheel support is apparently much smoother than the userspace version