#emc-devel | Logs for 2006-05-13

[00:01:01] <rayh> I'll see if i can catch jmkasunich here in the morning. Bout nine his time.
[00:01:09] <rayh> bye all
[01:05:25] <SWPadnos> hi Ray
[01:05:31] <SWPadnos> no jmk yet
[01:05:37] <rayh> Hi Steven
[01:06:11] <SWPadnos> I may be lucky and leave tomorrow - w00t!
[01:06:41] <rayh> That would get you here in good time.
[01:07:25] <SWPadnos> I'll be a bit late tomorrow, but more or less on time in Galesburg (tired though)
[01:07:31] <SWPadnos> unless the machine acts up tomorrow
[01:08:45] <rayh> machine?
[01:09:31] <SWPadnos> this (stupid fscking LabView) project I'm working on goes into a 625KW power supply tomorrow, for a customer demo on Tuesday
[01:10:02] <fenn> kablooie!
[01:10:16] <SWPadnos> well - I'll be in IL, so that's OK. :)
[01:10:58] <SWPadnos> it's really too bad. this is very cool hardware, but the only way to get it to do anything is by using LabView to develop the software and FPGA code
[01:12:22] <fenn> write an angry letter and bury it somewhere
[01:12:24] <SWPadnos> look at http://www.ni.com/ and select CompactRIO from the hardware menu
[01:12:44] <SWPadnos> I've let them know that I don't plan to become a 20-year veteran user of LabView
[01:14:21] <SWPadnos> the reconfigurable embedded system is basically a tiny PC, with a CPU that I think has a 1GHz clock, 64M RAM, 512M flash, and either a 1- or 3-million gate FPGA
[01:14:22] <rayh> Hope it works and you can get away early.
[01:14:27] <SWPadnos> me too
[01:14:48] <SWPadnos> we had to give up on the 10KHz loop rate for now - going down to 100Hz helps a lot ;)
[01:15:18] <fenn> and it's not overkill?
[01:15:24] <fenn> * fenn boggles
[01:16:25] <SWPadnos> I'm amazed. just filtering ~12 analog inputs and a few housekeeping tasks takes around `M gates
[01:16:29] <SWPadnos> 1M, that is
[01:16:43] <SWPadnos> and that's without any of the PID in the FPGA
[12:46:27] <rayh> the countdown begins.
[12:46:54] <alex_joni> hi ray
[12:46:59] <alex_joni> what countdown?
[12:49:22] <rayh> Until I show off my misunderstandings of emc2.
[12:49:46] <rayh> Hi Alex. Working of taking a weekend day off?
[12:52:07] <rayh> working or. Darn can't type and I'm just getting started.
[13:01:55] <alex_joni> still compiling kernels for the livecd :)
[13:02:23] <alex_joni> this is just getting madder and madder
[13:07:01] <rayh> I tried that with knoppix. What a mess i made of it.
[13:07:23] <rayh> BTW -- There might be a bit of reward for you doing this.
[13:07:31] <rayh> nothing certain yet...
[13:08:29] <alex_joni> IF I ever finish it :))
[13:08:38] <cradek> hi guys
[13:08:43] <alex_joni> hi chris
[13:08:57] <rayh> Hi chris
[13:09:55] <cradek> what could be better reward than the admiration of his peers?
[13:10:12] <cradek> oh wait, I know one thing :-)
[13:10:21] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is afraid to know
[13:10:25] <rayh> at my age several things come to mind.
[13:10:27] <alex_joni> what is it?
[13:10:30] <alex_joni> :))
[13:10:52] <alex_joni> brb, lunch
[13:10:53] <cradek> the admiration of his peers, plus a cookie
[13:13:14] <rayh> I upgraded my laptop last night using synaptic.
[13:13:30] <cradek> upgraded emc?
[13:13:35] <rayh> This morning the ubuntu updated said I needed to upgrade.
[13:13:45] <rayh> No the other stuff.
[13:14:04] <cradek> what does it want you to upgrade now?
[13:14:08] <rayh> updater.
[13:14:15] <rayh> about 140 packages.
[13:14:35] <cradek> there have been quite a few security fixes, including all of X
[13:14:56] <rayh> Looked to me like it wanted to do the same thing twice.
[13:14:59] <cradek> I've been ignoring those on my laptop because I don't care, but I allowed it to update X on my desktop and it was ok
[13:15:13] <rayh> I wonder why this box doesn't want upgrading.
[13:15:26] <rayh> hasn't in a month.
[13:15:55] <cradek> probably you don't have the update repositories enabled
[13:16:51] <cradek> there are breezy-updates and breezy-security
[13:18:33] <rayh> I've got everything checked except the breezy sources.
[13:19:04] <cradek> try an apt-get update then? or hit refresh on the update-manager
[13:19:08] <rayh> guess I should uncheck em and update then check them again.
[13:19:20] <rayh> Done that a dozen times since I got here.
[13:19:37] <cradek> huh.
[13:19:39] <rayh> It does find the new emc and axis stuff.
[13:20:05] <cradek> well that's good
[13:23:56] <rayh> Now it's saying that it can't get an exclusive lock.
[13:24:41] <rayh> Strange.
[13:24:59] <cradek> did you forget a sudo?
[13:25:06] <cradek> or some other apt thing is running?
[13:25:07] <rayh> but synaptic seems to think it's okay.
[13:25:26] <cradek> I think synaptic holds the lock while it's open
[13:25:27] <rayh> I didn't see any but I'll look again.
[13:32:37] <cradek> rayh: on the mazak is the spindle encoder counted with hardware or the encoder hal driver?
[13:35:45] <rayh> It's counted from a parport.
[13:36:08] <cradek> ok
[13:36:26] <alex_joni> back
[13:36:52] <cradek> Nasir on the mailing list is asking about an stg lathe - so far that's untested, I don't know if the stg encoder stuff is compatible
[13:36:55] <cradek> hi alex
[13:37:27] <alex_joni> cradek: not really, it can't zero the enc-count
[13:37:40] <alex_joni> I mean.. not yet
[13:37:44] <cradek> ok
[13:38:00] <alex_joni> the driver was useable to some point, the encoder stuff wasn't decided back then
[13:38:10] <alex_joni> so guess it'll be for 2.0.1 or later
[13:38:13] <cradek> there needs to be a flag controlled by motion that says 'zero when you get index'
[13:38:25] <alex_joni> I think there is
[13:38:37] <cradek> I think that's all it needs...?
[13:39:00] <alex_joni> inside the driver it needs to actually zero the counter chips
[13:39:06] <alex_joni> and export zero-imp pins
[13:39:12] <alex_joni> those aren't right now
[13:39:15] <cradek> ok
[13:39:32] <cradek> doesn't the card know how to do that itself? I think it needs to be in hardware
[13:40:27] <cradek> or are you saying the card knows how to do it, but the driver doesn't have the ability to instruct it to do that?
[13:40:40] <alex_joni> right
[13:40:50] <cradek> ok I see
[13:41:06] <cradek> unfortunately Nasir is out of luck for right now then
[13:41:08] <alex_joni> the card knows more than one way (either reset, or remember the count when zero imp happened)
[13:41:23] <alex_joni> he can use parport for the spindle then
[13:41:27] <alex_joni> and stg for the rest
[13:41:30] <cradek> true
[13:41:53] <alex_joni> * alex_joni curses very badly at debian
[13:42:43] <alex_joni> cradek: I successfully built a kernel for the install, along with initrd & all, but after it boots, it needs the kernel deb aswell :/
[13:42:56] <alex_joni> so I guess I need to make a deb for rtai, along with a new deb for emc2
[13:43:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni breaks down in tears
[13:43:41] <cradek> your kernel is not compatible with the existing rtai/emc2 debs?
[13:44:04] <cradek> if you used the same patch and .config it should be...?
[13:44:15] <alex_joni> not the same name
[13:44:24] <alex_joni> so it won't even try
[13:44:46] <alex_joni> maybe I should just rename them ??
[13:44:54] <cradek> yuck
[13:45:00] <alex_joni> indeed yuck
[13:45:29] <alex_joni> oh, and to make it really nice.. I can't use 2.6.12-magma as a name for the linux-source package
[13:45:39] <alex_joni> it complains that it doesn't have numbers in it
[13:46:24] <alex_joni> 2.6.12-10.magma is ok, but not 2.6.12-magma :(
[13:46:54] <cradek> yuck again
[13:47:07] <alex_joni> I could go on for another hour
[13:47:19] <alex_joni> but I won't :)
[13:47:38] <cradek> a live cd would be nice, but I'm not sure how much trouble it's worth
[13:48:52] <alex_joni> what I like about it, is that it's 100% just like an installed desktop
[13:49:00] <alex_joni> same as the user will get later
[13:58:37] <alex_joni> cradek: did you get an email from Nasir on the mailing list? I didn't..
[13:59:23] <cradek> he also sent it to me privately - it may not have come through the list yet
[13:59:41] <cradek> although he sent it yesterday mid-day
[14:00:05] <alex_joni> odd
[14:00:08] <cradek> 18 hrs? ago
[14:00:18] <alex_joni> btw, did you notice htat the arhives are gone?
[14:00:26] <cradek> no
[14:00:47] <cradek> do you know if that's on purpose, or just a temporary outage?
[14:01:10] <alex_joni> oh, they seem to be back now
[14:01:19] <cradek> oh good
[14:01:28] <alex_joni> oh god
[14:01:29] <alex_joni> ;)
[14:16:33] <alex_joni> cradek: seems SF's CVS is finally online again
[14:16:41] <cradek> cool
[14:16:54] <cradek> I hope they have it all sorted out
[15:09:15] <rayh> I'm back
[15:09:29] <alex_joni> rayh: paul was looking for you in #emc
[15:09:44] <rayh> has jmkasunich said anything about being around.
[15:09:48] <rayh> Thanks alex.
[15:09:58] <alex_joni> not that I've seen jmk
[15:25:07] <jmkasunich> hi ray
[15:25:17] <jmkasunich> doing saturday morning chores
[15:25:26] <jmkasunich> but I have a quick question for you
[15:25:41] <rayh> okay
[15:26:09] <jmkasunich> we talked about paper copies of handbook and hal book
[15:26:17] <rayh> Right.
[15:26:22] <jmkasunich> I still have time to get stuff printed at staples (I think)
[15:26:45] <jmkasunich> I was thinking of the first two chapters of the hal book only, and just stapled
[15:26:48] <jmkasunich> handouts
[15:26:54] <rayh> There is a staples in town here, but Roland's church will print for 0.01 if we provide the paper.
[15:27:10] <rayh> I brought a case of paper so we should be good to go.
[15:27:12] <jmkasunich> then (maybe) a few copies of the whole thing with bindings,
[15:27:22] <rayh> I can print a master here and hand to him.
[15:27:24] <jmkasunich> I was gonna do it today, here
[15:27:34] <jmkasunich> one less thing to do while there
[15:27:35] <rayh> That's fine with me.
[15:27:42] <alex_joni> hi guys
[15:27:47] <alex_joni> I mean, hi John
[15:27:50] <jmkasunich> any guess as to how many?
[15:27:52] <jmkasunich> hi alex
[15:28:15] <rayh> First two chapters probably 20-30.
[15:29:21] <rayh> I'd bet you could sell 20 copies of the whole book as well.
[15:29:36] <jmkasunich> the problem with the "whole book" is that it will go out of date
[15:29:49] <jmkasunich> tho folks who stick with 2.0.0 won't mind
[15:29:58] <jmkasunich> for them it will be accurate until 2.1.0 comes out
[15:30:02] <rayh> Sure. And there are soft copies available.
[15:30:11] <jmkasunich> right
[15:30:29] <jmkasunich> maybe I'll do 20-30 of the first two, and 10 or so of the whole thing
[15:30:52] <rayh> Okay sounds good.
[15:31:16] <rayh> I've got a question about table layout here.
[15:31:32] <jmkasunich> ok
[15:31:56] <jmkasunich> btw, is "here" Roland's place?
[15:32:01] <rayh> Where your main table was last year is the japax wire welder.
[15:32:06] <rayh> yes
[15:32:12] <rayh> wire edm
[15:32:31] <jmkasunich> ok, guess no table there
[15:32:39] <rayh> Behind that is the punch press.
[15:32:40] <jmkasunich> its gonna be crowded isn't it
[15:32:53] <rayh> Well we have lots of room the other way.
[15:33:10] <jmkasunich> other side of the really big mill you mean?
[15:33:15] <rayh> JonE's bridgeport is going to be in front of the roll up door.
[15:33:29] <jmkasunich> he's bringing the whole mill?
[15:33:44] <rayh> No roland is supplying and jon is fitting.
[15:33:48] <jmkasunich> ah
[15:34:08] <rayh> Beyond the big mill is quite a bit of room the the divider wall.
[15:34:19] <jmkasunich> ok
[15:34:27] <rayh> Should we put a set of developer desks in a square there.
[15:35:01] <jmkasunich> is your phone free? this is slow
[15:35:04] <rayh> Or would it be better for developers to be beyond the wall, kinda in a corner.
[15:35:34] <rayh> Sure call the cardinal line in about 5 minutes and I'lll go over and get it.
[15:35:48] <jmkasunich> duh, I just called your home number
[15:35:52] <jmkasunich> ;-/
[15:35:57] <rayh> oh.
[15:36:05] <jmkasunich> I'll call cardinal
[15:36:13] <rayh> k
[15:37:15] <jmkasunich> busy
[20:50:29] <rayh> Why do I get the microsoft website when I click on "follow these instructions" on the emc2 install page of the wiki?
[20:50:58] <alex_joni> huh?
[20:51:02] <alex_joni> where on the wiki?
[20:51:46] <rayh> I got there by following install emc2
[20:52:50] <rayh> and in the first paragraph there is a link in the first paragraph "Chris Radek"
[20:53:04] <alex_joni> ok, found out why
[20:53:07] <rayh> where it says simply follow "these instructions"
[20:53:12] <alex_joni> the link was http://http://
[20:53:45] <alex_joni> and only that seems to be bringing up www.microsoft.org ?? odd
[20:54:05] <rayh> No clue.
[20:54:49] <alex_joni> wtf.. 'http://ht' brings up soms strange page, maybe firefox is googling for the word
[20:57:11] <alex_joni> http://www.google.ro/search?q=http
[20:57:18] <alex_joni> wonder how much they payd for that
[21:16:39] <SWPadnos> hi guys
[21:16:46] <jmkasunich> hi swp
[21:16:54] <SWPadnos> well, it's definite. I won't be arriving at Fest until Monday evening
[21:16:55] <jmkasunich> how goes the FPGA?
[21:16:58] <jmkasunich> bummer
[21:17:01] <SWPadnos> fscking labview
[21:18:18] <SWPadnos> imagine if you will, a 3M gate FPGA, and all it's doing is allowing some software (running on an attached PC-like machine) to read A/D and digital inputs, and write some outputs, and it does minimal filtering on the analog inputs
[21:18:31] <SWPadnos> this very simple program takes up over 1M of those gates
[21:19:06] <jmkasunich> holy bloat Batman!
[21:19:10] <SWPadnos> it should be roughly 12 sets of an adder, a shifter, and a subtracter, plus the interface stull - it just boggles the mind
[21:19:18] <SWPadnos> stuff
[21:19:23] <SWPadnos> yes - holy boat
[21:19:31] <jmkasunich> that would sink
[21:19:40] <SWPadnos> the PID loop that was supposed to run at 10KHz is only running at 100Hz
[21:19:43] <jmkasunich> (hole-y boat ;-)
[21:19:50] <SWPadnos> yes, this holy bloated boat would sink ;)
[21:20:01] <SWPadnos> (sorry - only got 3 hours sleep the last few nuights)
[21:20:33] <SWPadnos> see - I meant to say nights
[21:21:45] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich, about how long is the drive from your place to Roland's?
[21:22:21] <rayh> Hey John. I got a 4 phase stepper drive here.
[21:22:34] <rayh> unipolar.
[21:22:49] <jmkasunich> SWP: ~ 9 hours I think
[21:22:51] <jmkasunich> hi ray
[21:22:56] <SWPadnos> urk. bummer
[21:22:57] <jmkasunich> ls
[21:22:59] <rayh> hi john.
[21:23:00] <jmkasunich> why?
[21:23:11] <jmkasunich> maybe 8
[21:23:16] <jmkasunich> 7 if you drive like Ray
[21:23:17] <rayh> It took me 6.5 from ann arbor with construction and such.
[21:23:43] <SWPadnos> I was considering trying to do the drive in one long day, but since Cleveland is roughly half way there for me, I don't think I'll do that
[21:23:51] <alex_joni> cradek: around?
[21:24:24] <rayh> What do I have to change to get stepgen to do that for me?
[21:24:34] <jmkasunich> steptype
[21:24:36] <SWPadnos> stepping_type = 4 or so
[21:24:42] <jmkasunich> to whatever one gives you the pattern you want
[21:24:59] <jmkasunich> then instead of step and dir pins, you'll have phase-A, phase-B, etc pins
[21:25:12] <jmkasunich> route them to the parport pins you want to use
[21:25:29] <rayh> This is detailed in the hal_int doc?
[21:25:35] <jmkasunich> there are several different 4-phase patterns
[21:25:35] <jmkasunich> yes
[21:25:46] <rayh> I've got the guy ringing out the plug now.
[21:25:49] <jmkasunich> I think there is a fullstep and halfstep pattern
[21:26:36] <rayh> Okay. This is a fantastic opportunity.
[21:26:58] <rayh> another etch-a-sketch
[21:27:06] <rayh> with size 17 steppers.
[21:27:19] <SWPadnos> I can bring a couple of very small stepper motors, if you like
[21:27:34] <jmkasunich> I have nema17
[21:27:46] <jmkasunich> 's from old 5.25" floppy drives
[21:27:50] <SWPadnos> 4-phase, unipolar, from DigiKey - they'd be around NEMA 0.3 ;)
[21:27:58] <jmkasunich> heh
[21:28:02] <rayh> This guy just walked in with the thing wired from some old "kit" that never ran.
[21:28:13] <rayh> That is small.
[21:29:09] <rayh> * rayh goes off to read hal_intro again.
[21:29:29] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I wonder if it would make sense to use a small stepper motor as an encoder replacement
[21:29:35] <jmkasunich> ?
[21:29:46] <jmkasunich> no output at zero speed
[21:30:25] <SWPadnos> encoders don't have any output at 0 speed either
[21:30:45] <jmkasunich> but no matter how slow you turn it, you won't lose position
[21:30:45] <SWPadnos> ah - no latched outputs - right
[21:30:49] <jmkasunich> not true with a stepper
[21:31:00] <jmkasunich> turn it slow enough and the output voltage is lost in the mud
[21:31:42] <SWPadnos> righto - OK.
[21:31:47] <SWPadnos> see - I'm short of sleep ;)
[21:51:20] <alex_joni> ok, another attempt :)
[21:51:29] <alex_joni> please let it work now
[21:53:04] <SWPadnos> ok -it can work now
[21:54:20] <alex_joni> thx swp
[21:54:34] <SWPadnos> any time ;)
[21:54:51] <alex_joni> I'm slowly running out of cdr's
[21:54:54] <alex_joni> lol
[21:55:18] <SWPadnos> I should look into making a bootable DVD - I have either 200 or 400 blanks here
[21:55:33] <SWPadnos> ah - 200
[21:57:08] <SWPadnos> I suppose I could bring those, I have a burner in the big machine
[21:57:34] <alex_joni> yeah.. bring them over here
[21:57:35] <alex_joni> :))
[21:57:43] <SWPadnos> ok. send a ticket ;)
[21:57:52] <alex_joni> is row-boat ok?
[21:58:02] <SWPadnos> as long as it's first class
[21:58:19] <alex_joni> yeah, you get the rudder
[21:58:32] <SWPadnos> oops. time to go - dinner with the wife tonight (woo)
[21:58:35] <SWPadnos> see you later
[21:59:18] <alex_joni> later
[22:05:12] <alex_joni> IT's WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:05:19] <alex_joni> YAYAYAYA
[22:05:40] <alex_joni> who wants an iso to test ;)
[22:06:04] <alex_joni> I'm running axis-sim in the LiveCD right now, chipping away at 3D-Chips
[22:32:40] <skunkworks> good job ales
[22:32:42] <skunkworks> alex
[22:36:46] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi/01147559232
[22:36:56] <alex_joni> if anyone cares to repeat the experience :)
[23:26:59] <alex_joni> Ubuntu LiveCD at: http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/emc2-ubuntu-livecd.iso
[23:49:58] <alex_joni> hi chris
[23:50:08] <cradek> hi
[23:50:11] <cradek> congratulations on the live cd
[23:50:16] <cradek> I wish I had time to try it :-/
[23:50:27] <cradek> I bet you learned a lot in the process
[23:50:37] <alex_joni> more than I bargained for :))
[23:50:54] <cradek> yes it's always that way
[23:51:31] <alex_joni> I think it makes a nice CD to pass around.. but it should get tested..