#emc-devel | Logs for 2006-05-10

[01:41:16] <jmkasunich> when your computer crashes, ask the all knowing google
[01:51:23] <SWPadnos> how can you? ;)
[02:01:03] <jmkasunich> after you reboot
[02:01:07] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:01:24] <jmkasunich> got a new webcam (the old one was shit)
[02:01:31] <jmkasunich> and the driver promptly locked up the box
[02:01:37] <SWPadnos> bummer.
[02:01:40] <SWPadnos> what brand?
[02:01:59] <jmkasunich> google says: known problem with ubuntu and that driver, get the latest here...
[02:02:10] <jmkasunich> "Aiptek PenCam 1.3"
[02:02:10] <SWPadnos> heh - that's a good google response :)
[02:02:20] <jmkasunich> working fine now
[02:02:21] <SWPadnos> ok. one of those 1280x1024 jobbies?
[02:02:28] <SWPadnos> or the 800x600
[02:02:28] <jmkasunich> well, the sensor is
[02:02:35] <SWPadnos> right
[02:02:38] <jmkasunich> in webcam mode it only does 640x480
[02:03:01] <jmkasunich> I guess theres a different driver that runs it in camera mode
[02:03:02] <SWPadnos> ah
[02:03:17] <SWPadnos> that's fixed focus (and zoom), right?
[02:03:27] <jmkasunich> camera mode: take pic (dunno if that can be initiated from the PC) and then upload it
[02:03:37] <jmkasunich> adj focus, fixed zoom
[02:03:42] <jmkasunich> it was a whole $69
[02:03:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:03:56] <jmkasunich> more than I wanted to pay, I was originally looking at the $29 ones
[02:04:12] <jmkasunich> but they have 352x240 sensors, crap
[02:04:17] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I have a QuickCam around here somewhere. don't remember the res
[02:04:31] <jmkasunich> I had a $49 640x480 one in my hand when I saw this one
[02:04:31] <SWPadnos> (free when I signed up for DSL a few years ago)
[02:04:39] <jmkasunich> all the other 1.3M ones were $99 or more
[02:04:44] <jmkasunich> bet it was low res then
[02:05:09] <jmkasunich> I have two things in mind for it
[02:05:16] <jmkasunich> one: pics from fest
[02:05:28] <SWPadnos> funny - I never installed the drivers for it - the plastic bag with the CD and manuals is unopened
[02:05:54] <jmkasunich> they're not the most interesting things in the world
[02:06:00] <jmkasunich> I'm certainly not interested in video chat
[02:06:09] <jmkasunich> but I think it would be nice for the workshop
[02:06:31] <jmkasunich> if we tackle any significant projects it would be fun to make a time lapse video
[02:07:05] <jmkasunich> the other application would require some serious hacking (mechancial/optical)
[02:07:10] <SWPadnos> hmmm. if I had any suitable machine, I could set up the Micron sensor devkit I have to do that
[02:07:40] <SWPadnos> actually, I could set that one up anyway, if there's a Windows machine with USB2 around
[02:08:00] <jmkasunich> attach the camera to a spotting scope, let it watch a target at 50 or 100 yards and when a new hole appears, have it say "4 ring, 2 o'clock" or similar thru headphones
[02:08:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:08:20] <SWPadnos> the Micron kit could probably do that, with some software
[02:08:31] <SWPadnos> there's an FPGA on the base board as well
[02:08:34] <jmkasunich> what is this micron thing?
[02:08:40] <jmkasunich> is that the HD sensor
[02:08:55] <SWPadnos> no - still camera oriented, 5MP sensor
[02:09:00] <SWPadnos> it can do video though
[02:09:00] <jmkasunich> ah
[02:09:46] <jmkasunich> well, I've had this one for about an hour and a half
[02:09:51] <jmkasunich> time to take it apart ;-)
[02:09:58] <SWPadnos> http://www.micron.com/products/imaging/products/MT9P001.html
[02:10:00] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:10:09] <SWPadnos> this one comes pre-disassembled ;)
[02:10:16] <jmkasunich> (want to see if the lense can be removed and a much longer focal length one put in its place
[02:10:36] <jmkasunich> how many $ for the micron?
[02:10:48] <SWPadnos> the devkit was ~$1k, I think
[02:10:55] <jmkasunich> heh, too rich for me
[02:10:57] <SWPadnos> probably a bit high ;)
[02:11:01] <jmkasunich> I'll stick with $69 webcams
[02:12:11] <SWPadnos> I do plan on bringing my digital camera as well
[02:12:15] <SWPadnos> maybe two of them
[02:12:25] <SWPadnos> one high res, the other medium res
[02:12:50] <jmkasunich> I might bring ours, dunno
[02:13:01] <jmkasunich> its a midrange Olympus
[02:13:12] <SWPadnos> cool. I've got a couple of Fujis
[02:13:58] <SWPadnos> one 12MP, the other 4MP
[02:14:03] <jmkasunich> wow
[02:14:09] <SWPadnos> the 4MP has a nice 10x zoom with good macro capability
[02:14:09] <jmkasunich> I think ours is 3-4
[02:14:39] <jmkasunich> cool - the lense screws out
[02:14:49] <jmkasunich> lens even
[02:14:56] <SWPadnos> careful -that's focus ;)
[02:15:04] <jmkasunich> I know
[02:15:18] <SWPadnos> ok - just making sure :)
[02:15:43] <jmkasunich> what I'm thinking is remove the 8.7mm FL lens, and put the sensor at the prime focus of something with a much longer FL
[02:15:46] <SWPadnos> you can get a C-mount lens, the mount is a 1-32 thread, I think
[02:15:53] <SWPadnos> 1" - 32
[02:16:10] <jmkasunich> this is more like 1/2 - 40
[02:16:15] <jmkasunich> or some metric equivalent
[02:16:20] <jmkasunich> remember, $69
[02:16:30] <SWPadnos> there are a lot of C-mount lenses, you may have to do some hackery
[02:16:50] <jmkasunich> I'm thinking something more like a binocular objective
[02:16:57] <jmkasunich> 300mm FL
[02:17:00] <SWPadnos> I don't think there's a standard for the really small lenses
[02:17:27] <jmkasunich> with the standard lens, the FOV is about a foot at 2 feet range
[02:17:37] <jmkasunich> I want about a foot at 100ft range
[02:17:41] <jmkasunich> so I need 50x
[02:17:54] <SWPadnos> what's the size of the imager (roughly)?
[02:18:12] <jmkasunich> which means 50*8.7 = 435mm FL
[02:18:19] <jmkasunich> quarter inch maybe
[02:18:45] <SWPadnos> where's the 8.7 from?
[02:19:01] <jmkasunich> front of the lens assy
[02:19:09] <SWPadnos> ah
[02:19:10] <jmkasunich> 8.7mm/F3.0
[02:21:16] <jmkasunich> nice macro capability
[02:21:32] <jmkasunich> with the case off I can unscrew the lens till it almost falls out
[02:21:37] <SWPadnos> does it look like the actual imaging area is 1/4 inch across (diagonally), or is that the whole chip
[02:21:52] <jmkasunich> focuses at about 1", and the ctrl key on my keyboard about fills the image
[02:21:58] <SWPadnos> cool
[02:22:02] <jmkasunich> imaging area
[02:22:37] <SWPadnos> ok. that could be a standard metric thread - M12/0.5
[02:22:52] <jmkasunich> could be
[02:23:04] <SWPadnos> 8.75mm is the largest I see
[02:23:17] <jmkasunich> largest what?
[02:23:21] <SWPadnos> lens
[02:23:35] <SWPadnos> longest that fits that mounting thread
[02:23:49] <jmkasunich> thread is irrelevant
[02:24:09] <SWPadnos> oh wait - here are some 50mm f/2.8 lenses
[02:24:22] <jmkasunich> I'm thinking of a 30-50mm diameter lense with f/l 300-400mm
[02:24:35] <jmkasunich> so the tube will be a foot long
[02:24:47] <jmkasunich> the camera will be hanging off the lense, not the other way around
[02:24:50] <SWPadnos> the focal length is "equivalent" for some image plane size
[02:24:57] <jmkasunich> why do I keep spelling lens lense
[02:25:04] <SWPadnos> I have no ideae
[02:28:40] <jmkasunich> gotta say this think is a heck of a lot nicer than a webcam
[02:29:13] <jmkasunich> it can be used as a regular cam (batteries, onboard ram, plus socket for SD memory card)
[02:29:32] <jmkasunich> and it has a gen-u-wine 1/4-20 tripod socket
[02:29:42] <SWPadnos> that's cool
[02:29:42] <jmkasunich> even came with a mini tripod
[02:29:51] <SWPadnos> so did the micron ;)
[02:30:03] <jmkasunich> when connected to the PC, it runs on usb power, no batteries needed
[02:30:57] <jmkasunich> I hate battery powered stuff
[02:31:11] <jmkasunich> minor change of subject
[02:31:18] <SWPadnos> unless it takes AA batteries (rechargeable preferably)
[02:31:26] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:32:11] <jmkasunich> you've mapped dinero/home/jmkasunich/compile_farm so that people can surf to linuxcnc.org/compile_farm and read it
[02:32:19] <jmkasunich> mind if I use that to post webcam pics?
[02:32:41] <SWPadnos> that's OK by me.
[02:32:52] <SWPadnos> I'd like to have an upload area though.
[02:32:59] <jmkasunich> ?
[02:33:03] <SWPadnos> there was some discussion about videos / photos earlier
[02:33:14] <jmkasunich> oh, uploads from other folks
[02:33:14] <SWPadnos> I don't mind hosting them, I've got space and transfer to burn
[02:33:18] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:33:28] <SWPadnos> which you could also use
[02:33:32] <SWPadnos> for this stuff
[02:33:55] <jmkasunich> well, I'm gonna mess with scripts to take periodic pics and scp them to the farm dir
[02:33:59] <jmkasunich> the path can be changed later
[02:34:13] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:36:46] <cradek> logger_devel: bookmark
[02:36:46] <cradek> See
[02:38:00] <jmkasunich> hmm, "v4lctl snap jpeg full foo.jpg" is supposed to take a snapshot
[02:38:02] <jmkasunich> and it does, kinda
[02:38:30] <jmkasunich> the image is chopped up, and different parts even seem to be at different resolutions
[02:38:42] <SWPadnos> interesting.
[02:38:50] <SWPadnos> is there a gphoto driver for that camera?
[02:39:41] <SWPadnos> is it the Aiptek "1.3 mega PocketCam"?
[02:39:56] <jmkasunich> probably, and yes
[02:40:07] <SWPadnos> the driver was in testing as of last December
[02:40:52] <SWPadnos> heh - nice bug fix:
[02:41:04] <SWPadnos> * spca50x driver: - do not delete everything and fail to download on Aiptek 1.3
[02:41:32] <jmkasunich> url for that info?
[02:41:38] <SWPadnos> http://www.gphoto.org/
[02:42:00] <SWPadnos> it's highly likely that it's in the Ubuntu repositories
[02:42:20] <jmkasunich> checking
[02:42:22] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure about the control features though
[02:43:44] <jmkasunich> only one way to find out
[02:43:49] <jmkasunich> installing the packages now
[02:43:53] <SWPadnos> cool.
[02:44:08] <jmkasunich> I know the v4l interface works, because it displays video fine with gqcam
[02:44:16] <SWPadnos> ok.
[02:44:21] <SWPadnos> can you save as a raw file?
[02:45:20] <SWPadnos> ok. ppm or jpeg only
[02:45:56] <SWPadnos> you could try using v4l to get a ppm, then imagemagick for the jpeg conversion
[02:46:04] <jmkasunich> well, gqcam can save snapshots
[02:46:14] <jmkasunich> (tested, works)
[02:46:21] <SWPadnos> cool. any better?
[02:46:25] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:46:38] <jmkasunich> says it can do png, jpg, ppm and ray
[02:46:41] <jmkasunich> I tried png
[02:46:50] <jmkasunich> only problem is its GUI
[02:46:53] <jmkasunich> I want command line
[02:47:14] <jmkasunich> but that proves the driver/camera is capable of making snaps
[02:47:34] <jmkasunich> there are multiple v4l progs, I'm sure I can find one that will make snaps from the cmd line
[02:47:44] <SWPadnos> I'd definitely try the ppm / imagemagick method then
[02:52:23] <SWPadnos> I can *not* believe how stupid LabView is
[02:52:49] <SWPadnos> I compile the FPGA "programs", and there's a build log I'd like to look at
[02:52:57] <SWPadnos> it's in a non-resizeable window
[02:53:11] <jmkasunich> dumb
[02:53:21] <SWPadnos> the text area can be scrolled, but it's really small compared to the siez of the log
[02:53:24] <SWPadnos> it gets worse
[02:53:35] <SWPadnos> I right-click and select "copy data"
[02:53:49] <SWPadnos> and I get an image of the currently displayed portion on the clipboard
[02:53:52] <SWPadnos> a biutmap
[02:53:54] <SWPadnos> bitmap
[02:54:01] <jmkasunich> lol
[02:54:02] <SWPadnos> un-fricking-believeable
[02:54:04] <jmkasunich> (sorry)
[02:54:17] <SWPadnos> it's funny, when you're not trying to deliver something ;)
[02:54:21] <SWPadnos> that works
[02:54:34] <jmkasunich> can you click on the text, scroll to the bottom (highlight it all) and copy? (ctrl-c)
[02:54:56] <SWPadnos> probably. through all 2000+ lines
[02:55:28] <jmkasunich> yay, vgrabbj works to grab a frame
[02:55:35] <jmkasunich> but I think RGB must be swapped
[02:56:01] <jmkasunich> my gray cat is still gray, but the my yellow fluke meter is blue
[02:56:21] <SWPadnos> imagemagick should be able to fix that for you, unless a G channel is being combined with R or B
[02:56:47] <jmkasunich> vgrabbj has options to do swapping too
[02:56:54] <SWPadnos> ah - cool
[02:57:20] <SWPadnos> so I did manage to copy the text, and it's missing the info I want - total FPGA resources used
[02:57:21] <SWPadnos> argh
[02:58:05] <jmkasunich> swap fixed it
[03:04:41] <jmkasunich> hmm, don't think I have to write a script
[03:04:55] <jmkasunich> at least not if dinero will accept ordinary FTP uploads
[03:05:37] <jmkasunich> vgrabbj has a mode where it daemonizes itself, takes periodic snaps, and FTPs them to a specified file at a specific host
[03:09:55] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:10:08] <jmkasunich> I was looking for something that can turn frames into a movie
[03:10:11] <jmkasunich> and found:
[03:10:24] <jmkasunich> PornView is an image and movie viewer/manager with thumbnail previews.
[03:10:24] <jmkasunich> Additional features includes thumbnail caching, directory tree views,
[03:10:24] <jmkasunich> adjustable zoom, and fullscreen view. Slideshows allow for unattended
[03:10:24] <jmkasunich> presentation of images for hands-free viewing. Pornview is written
[03:10:24] <jmkasunich> using GTK+.
[03:10:38] <jmkasunich> note the critical "hands free" capability
[03:11:01] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:11:07] <SWPadnos> critical, for sure
[13:56:32] <jepler> oh my god. "As of 2006-05-09 the developer CVS server had a disk-failure"
[13:56:46] <alex_joni> lol, are they for real?
[13:57:05] <jepler> http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=2352&group_id=1#1147261394
[13:57:44] <alex_joni> ok, now that is too much to be a coincidence :)
[13:57:56] <jepler> then what isit?
[13:58:02] <alex_joni> stupidity?
[13:58:21] <alex_joni> it's just fscked up, that's what it is..
[13:58:42] <alex_joni> * alex_joni still had a tiny bit of sympathy for SF
[13:58:43] <jepler> boy did the board ever make the right decision about cvs
[13:58:55] <alex_joni> but it's all gone now :/
[13:59:13] <alex_joni> the sympathy I mean
[13:59:42] <cradek> we would sure be sweating about workshop if we hadn't moved cvs.
[14:00:04] <alex_joni> indeed..
[14:00:09] <alex_joni> hi chris & jeff, btw :)
[14:00:14] <cradek> hi
[14:02:51] <alex_joni> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1485300&group_id=1&atid=200001
[14:03:38] <jepler> I think that "$" by the submitter's name means he's actually paid sourceforge money
[14:04:02] <jepler> oh, no, I guess it means he'll accept money if you're foolish enough to offer it
[14:04:39] <alex_joni> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1485491&group_id=1&atid=200001
[14:06:01] <cradek> I think I turned on my $ once, not sure if I left it on
[14:06:23] <jepler> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?group_id=1&atid=200001&summary_keyword=cvs
[14:06:33] <SWPadnos> cradek, yes, your $ is still on
[14:06:40] <alex_joni> there are even people who paid who get the same product: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1484186&group_id=1&atid=200001
[14:07:02] <SWPadnos> hi guys ;)
[14:07:37] <jepler> CVS through SSH (developer access) down cvs service outage cvs service has been down for the last 2 days cannot connect to cvs server cvs connection problems cvs connection refused CVS serving old versions como project: incorrect CVS tarball Browse CVS Repository doesn't work Alchemi CVS access cvs service down CVS for BeFPC project has become inaccessable Cannot access CVS using :ext CVS Download un
[14:07:43] <cradek> * cradek clicks on "Next 50" for a while and gets bored
[14:07:45] <jepler> on and on
[14:07:53] <jepler> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1485288&group_id=1&atid=200001
[14:07:58] <cradek> SWPadnos: it doesn't seem to have any effect...
[14:08:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:08:05] <jepler> "I was wondering if upgrading to 'subscriber' status
[14:08:06] <jepler> would decrease the frequency of CVS outages for my
[14:08:06] <jepler> project, "
[14:08:26] <alex_joni> keep dreaming Sam Reid..
[14:08:28] <jepler> * jepler laughs and cries
[14:08:36] <cradek> and he's so polite
[14:09:08] <jepler> it's sure a rational thing to wonder: will those who pay for service get better service? Maybe it's just a cynical ploy to get new paying subscribers.
[14:09:37] <SWPadnos> funny to note that the priority on all those is 5 - medium
[14:09:49] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: that's default priority
[14:09:51] <SWPadnos> you'd think that loss of the central service they provide would be higher priority
[14:09:54] <alex_joni> before someone assigns to it
[14:10:03] <jepler> none of these bugs have been touched by an SF person
[14:10:04] <SWPadnos> right - they haven't had time to look at all the complaints ;)
[14:10:15] <cradek> I'm sure they know full well it's broken
[14:10:16] <jepler> personally I'd mark them closed and point at the site status page
[14:10:32] <cradek> when I break something for everybody, I also stop answering the phone so I have time to work on it
[14:10:42] <jepler> cradek's telling the truth
[14:11:54] <alex_joni> jepler: can't you just go over to his desk?
[14:12:05] <jepler> no, he locks the door too
[14:12:21] <alex_joni> * alex_joni passes jeff a second key
[14:12:23] <alex_joni> ;-)
[14:12:55] <SWPadnos> jepler and cradek - are both of you going to Fest?
[14:13:00] <cradek> yes
[14:13:18] <alex_joni> so.. hmm, who's gonna watch the cvs server? :D
[14:13:29] <SWPadnos> ding - that was my next question
[14:13:30] <cradek> we have a helper lined up in case there's a problem
[14:13:33] <SWPadnos> ok
[14:13:38] <cradek> (but there won't be)
[14:13:52] <SWPadnos> there was once, so you can't convince me ;)
[14:14:07] <alex_joni> then again, I think jmk will darg his CF to the fest.. right?
[14:14:13] <alex_joni> s/darg/drag/
[14:14:20] <cradek> all it needs is to be up more than SF, not a high bar
[14:14:21] <alex_joni> CF=compile farm
[14:14:29] <SWPadnos> he did last year, and I think he's still tired fromthe effort ;)
[14:14:40] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: he has cvs2.linuxcnc.org in there
[14:14:55] <SWPadnos> right
[14:15:07] <alex_joni> cradek: btw, should we worry about cvs3 ? maybe after fest..
[14:15:42] <cradek> cvs2 must be unplugged right now...
[14:16:15] <cradek> brb
[14:47:41] <SWPadnos> at some point, I can set up a cvs3 or cvs4 here. I even have a fixed IP at home
[15:02:47] <fenn> jmkasunich: your glowing review convinced me to buy an aiptek pencam :9
[15:09:13] <SWPadnos> glowing review = "easy to disassemble, and you can take pictures with a script" ;)
[15:12:59] <fenn> yep
[15:13:29] <fenn> and decent resolution, runs on batteries
[15:13:44] <fenn> well i'll see if it was worth the $25
[15:13:45] <SWPadnos> true
[15:44:39] <alex_joni> darn, it's cold outside
[15:44:57] <alex_joni> we had like 23 yesterday, now it's only 14 C
[15:45:18] <alex_joni> 57F
[22:31:11] <jmkasunich> I'm not planning on bringing the compile farm.... too much of a pain in the rear
[22:31:36] <jmkasunich> maybe I should think about setting up dyndns tho, incase I need to log into it
[22:32:48] <cradek> jmkasunich: did your ip change again?
[22:32:52] <cradek> hi btw
[22:36:30] <jmkasunich> probably
[22:37:42] <jmkasunich> got it?
[22:37:49] <jmkasunich> gonna be away for a few hours
[22:46:54] <cradek> got it
[23:00:43] <jepler> cradek: there's something wrong with the debian/ directory in HEAD. debian/emc2.files doesn't think the configs are in the place where 'make install' puts them
[23:00:55] <jepler> debian/tmp/etc/emc2 vs debian/tmp/etc/emc2/sample-configs I think
[23:01:47] <cradek> jepler: maybe it's just way out of date
[23:07:16] <cradek> jepler: the debian directory in the branch exactly matches the one I use for the packages with the exception of the `extras' directory
[23:15:50] <jepler> I was going to install ubuntu on that spare machine to get the package list for the emc2 cd, but I couldn't find my already-burned ubuntu cd, and I just burned a coaster on this laptop. sound familiar?
[23:43:43] <SWPadnos> so -this may eb a silly question, but can I get the unloaded acceleration of a motor by just dividing torque (in-lb) by inertia (in-lb-sec^2)?
[23:43:47] <SWPadnos> s/eb/be/