#emc-devel | Logs for 2006-04-04

[02:15:29] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. We're working on the problems with Tor abuse. We ask that you only ban "*@tor/session/*", rather than adding a global ban on "*@tor/*" . Freenode continues to support the Electronic Frontier Foundation's Tor project and will work on ways to filter out the abuse without causing problems for legitimate users.
[02:16:55] <lilo> [Global Notice] Our policy on Tor is here: http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#tor .... thanks!
[02:21:09] <lilo> [Global Notice] Clarification: we definitely don't recommend you ban tor nodes if you can avoid doing so; if you do need to, we recommend you quiet them (+q instead of +b). And we recommend you make those quiets temporary. Please be aware: there are a number of legitimate Tor users on the network. Thanks!
[02:32:12] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
[03:06:12] <SWPadnos> hi, folks
[03:06:22] <cradek> hi!
[03:06:30] <cradek> you're just the one I'm looking for
[03:06:41] <SWPadnos> uh0oh
[03:06:46] <cradek> haha
[03:06:47] <SWPadnos> err -
[03:06:53] <SWPadnos> whassup?
[03:06:56] <cradek> could you add cvs.linuxcnc.org to dns please?
[03:07:10] <SWPadnos> sure -where do you want it to point?
[03:07:20] <cradek>
[03:07:36] <SWPadnos> or do you want me to set up CVS on dreamhost?
[03:07:40] <cradek> just an A record
[03:07:43] <SWPadnos> ok
[03:07:49] <cradek> nope, it's already done
[03:08:07] <cradek> we looked in the dreamhost documentation and there were some real limitations
[03:08:53] <SWPadnos> ok - I know anonymous access was one of them
[03:09:26] <SWPadnos> now all I have to do is remember my password
[03:09:42] <cradek> * cradek crosses his fingers
[03:15:16] <SWPadnos> yay - found it
[03:15:56] <SWPadnos> ok. donw
[03:15:57] <SWPadnos> done
[03:16:15] <SWPadnos> have I mentioned recently that I can't type on laptop keyboards?
[03:17:37] <cradek> yay, thank you
[03:17:45] <SWPadnos> no problem
[03:17:57] <cradek> by tomorrow maybe it'll work everywhere
[03:18:03] <SWPadnos> I take it SF has stayed crappy?
[03:18:11] <cradek> yes
[03:18:16] <SWPadnos> bummer
[03:18:24] <cradek> we've decided to roll our own (it's up, have a look at the new cvsweb)
[03:18:55] <SWPadnos> will do. it hasn't made it here yet
[03:18:58] <cradek> click one of the graphics next to a filename
[03:19:05] <jmkasunich> ( 2006-04-03 14:04:56 - Project CVS Service ) As an update to the 2006-03-30 CVS outage, our current estimate is that CVS services will be back online (developer access) late Tuesday or early Wednesday (Pacific Timezone).
[03:19:05] <cradek> you'll have to use the IP right now
[03:19:15] <SWPadnos> right
[03:19:42] <cradek> SWPadnos: are you back from your trip now?
[03:19:50] <jmkasunich> meanwhile they have another server failed (statistics, no big deal)
[03:19:55] <SWPadnos> nope - I'm in San Jose right now
[03:20:11] <SWPadnos> today is the first day, actually
[03:20:47] <cradek> cool, instead of clicking slowly through four levels of directories (whose names you know perfectly well), you can just type the path and go to it
[03:21:02] <SWPadnos> nice
[03:21:18] <cradek> on the revision graph, clicking on a node gives you that version/log, clicking on the line between two nodes gives you the diff
[03:21:33] <cradek> clicking on a branch gives you ... well, you can guess
[03:22:17] <SWPadnos> that's pretty cool
[03:22:48] <cradek> and it's synchronized with devel cvs now, so it will actually be useful
[03:23:05] <jmkasunich> does this use apache to serve the pages and cgi / cvsweb to build them? or does cvsweb have a built in webserver?
[03:23:20] <cradek> it is a cgi script that apache runs
[03:24:12] <jmkasunich> so you have a general purpose webserver there (if we think of anything usefull to do with it)
[03:24:17] <cradek> yes
[03:31:47] <jmkasunich> I just noticed the "Download this directory in tarball" link... cool!
[03:31:56] <cradek> yeah, that'll be great
[03:32:02] <cradek> you can go to a tag, and get that tarball too
[03:32:26] <cradek> so we can just link to up-to-the-second HEAD and TESTING tarballs from the website
[03:33:03] <SWPadnos> is cvs on that machine? (or, how is it synchronized with devel CVS?)
[03:33:12] <cradek> yes cvs is on it
[03:33:16] <cradek> we will no longer use sf at all
[03:33:21] <cradek> for cvs
[03:33:26] <jmkasunich> the web and the developer cvs run off the same repository, right?
[03:33:29] <cradek> yes
[03:33:39] <jmkasunich> instant updates on the web when you commit
[03:33:47] <jmkasunich> and instant tarballs for users
[03:33:50] <cradek> yes
[03:33:51] <SWPadnos> ok
[03:34:03] <SWPadnos> so we'll have to do new checkouts from this server
[03:34:06] <cradek> SWPadnos: I sent a couple mails to the devel list earlier today
[03:34:11] <cradek> yes
[03:34:32] <SWPadnos> ok - I'm not getting list emails here - they get removed from the webmail server by mi machine at home
[03:34:36] <SWPadnos> my
[03:34:54] <jmkasunich> the webcvs is obviously up
[03:35:02] <jmkasunich> what the status of developer cvs?
[03:35:13] <cradek> working on adding the first user now (me)
[03:35:19] <SWPadnos> he
[03:35:21] <SWPadnos> h
[03:35:27] <cradek> when I get your public keys I can add you right away
[03:35:28] <jmkasunich> I guess I should generate a ssh key
[03:35:34] <SWPadnos> hmmm - keys
[03:35:46] <SWPadnos> don't got none neither
[03:36:04] <jmkasunich> I haven't done keys on ubuntu yet
[03:36:44] <cradek> ssh-keygen -t rsa
[03:36:53] <cradek> then send me .ssh/identity.pub
[03:37:04] <cradek> or whatever the pub is called
[03:37:21] <cradek> if you have more than one key (several machines) send them all
[03:37:43] <SWPadnos> do you need separate ones per machine>
[03:37:45] <SWPadnos> ?
[03:37:51] <cradek> that's up to you
[03:37:58] <cradek> you can copy around your .ssh directory if you want the same key everywhere
[03:38:01] <SWPadnos> ok - so they're portable of you want to
[03:38:04] <cradek> eys
[03:38:04] <cradek> yes
[03:38:07] <SWPadnos> if
[03:38:08] <SWPadnos> argh
[03:38:20] <SWPadnos> have I mentioned recently that I hate laptop keyboards?
[03:38:29] <cradek> yes
[03:39:04] <SWPadnos> good
[03:39:16] <SWPadnos> just saw a funny FedEx commercial
[03:39:45] <SWPadnos> a caveman walks into a cave, adn says "the package didn't make it"
[03:39:55] <SWPadnos> (subtitled, of course)
[03:40:08] <SWPadnos> he eventually gets fired, and sulks out of the cave
[03:40:14] <SWPadnos> then he kicks a little dinosaur
[03:40:34] <SWPadnos> then he gets stomped on by a giant dinosaur foot :)
[03:53:42] <jmkasunich> my key is on the way
[03:54:10] <jmkasunich> of course if it takes as long to get there as your mail did to get here, add me tomorrow
[03:54:41] <cradek> got it already
[03:54:51] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:54:52] <SWPadnos> well - I think my battery is about to die. if the DNS doesn't update, drop me an email
[03:54:57] <SWPadnos> see you later
[03:55:00] <cradek> thank you
[03:55:01] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[03:55:29] <SWPadnos> you're welcome. good night
[03:58:32] <cradek> jmkasunich: cvs -d:ext:jmkasunich@ co emc2
[03:59:44] <jmkasunich> its updating
[03:59:47] <cradek> yay
[03:59:52] <cradek> that's all there is to it
[03:59:58] <jmkasunich> ok, lets talk farm
[04:00:11] <jmkasunich> it won't be committing, only reading
[04:00:19] <jmkasunich> is there anon cvs?
[04:00:22] <cradek> yes
[04:00:32] <cradek> replace jmkasunich with anon
[04:00:37] <jmkasunich> ok
[04:00:42] <jmkasunich> does it need a key?
[04:00:46] <cradek> no
[04:00:53] <jmkasunich> (stupid q)
[04:01:05] <jmkasunich> so the farm can check out that way
[04:01:11] <cradek> yes
[04:01:20] <jmkasunich> beauty
[04:01:47] <jmkasunich> and in some hours, we can replace with cvs.linuxcnc.org
[04:01:51] <cradek> right
[04:02:10] <jmkasunich> I think I'll wait for that before I do the farm checkouts
[04:02:17] <cradek> good idea
[04:02:20] <jmkasunich> hmm, the checkout stopped....
[04:02:27] <cradek> big file?
[04:02:36] <jmkasunich> going again
[04:02:42] <jmkasunich> not really
[04:02:55] <jmkasunich> had to blow the dust out of the net probably
[04:03:12] <cradek> you could try cvs -z3 to get compression
[04:03:25] <jmkasunich> duh, I always do that (except this time)
[04:03:36] <jmkasunich> I'll let it finish
[04:03:44] <cradek> yeah, it's only slow the first time
[04:04:18] <jmkasunich> tomorrow we can talk about getting the backups set up
[04:04:32] <cradek> yeah I have to work on that some more
[04:04:39] <cradek> I installed apache etc already
[04:04:41] <jmkasunich> I noticed that you logged in a couple times, have you started setting stuff up?
[04:04:47] <cradek> yes
[04:05:53] <jmkasunich> are you taking notes?
[04:06:13] <cradek> uhh
[04:06:15] <jmkasunich> ideally other folks should be able to set up backups without dumping all the work on you
[04:06:25] <jmkasunich> and theres that bus issue....
[04:07:05] <cradek> yeah I suppose so
[04:07:23] <cradek> I'll document it as much as necessary (most is normal setup: apache, cvsweb, etc, that I don't need to document)
[04:07:40] <cradek> but I will document everything I did that's "creative" (nonobvious)
[04:07:42] <jmkasunich> normal is relative
[04:08:14] <jmkasunich> ask on the dev list how many folks have set up apache, and I bet you get less than 5 hands raised
[04:08:20] <jmkasunich> maybe lots less (like 1)
[04:08:20] <cradek> well it's not going to be boilerplate, you'd need a unix-guy to do the work
[04:08:29] <cradek> apt-get install apache
[04:08:43] <jmkasunich> that part I can do
[04:08:44] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[04:08:50] <cradek> twiddle some config files, searching google if necessary
[04:08:55] <cradek> not rocket science...
[04:09:02] <jmkasunich> just sysadmin
[04:09:18] <jmkasunich> the kind of stuff I muddle thru, taking a weekend to do what you do in an hour
[04:09:32] <cradek> Checking in NEWS;
[04:09:33] <cradek> /cvs/emc2/docs/NEWS,v <-- NEWS
[04:09:33] <cradek> new revision: 1.14; previous revision: 1.13
[04:09:33] <cradek> done
[04:09:37] <cradek> wheeeeee
[04:09:43] <jmkasunich> but I understand, its hard to spell it out in painstaking detail
[04:09:46] <cradek> http://emc/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/docs/
[04:09:52] <cradek> Age: 19 seconds
[04:10:08] <cradek> err you'll have to fix the url of course
[04:11:02] <jmkasunich> you lie, its 76 seconds
[04:11:10] <cradek> click on the graph image next to NEWS
[04:11:20] <jmkasunich> did, looking at the diff now
[04:11:34] <cradek> you clicked on the line between the last two rectangles?
[04:11:38] <jmkasunich> yes
[04:11:39] <cradek> I think that's just the coolest thing
[04:11:55] <jmkasunich> - adressing hardware drivers, and allows fir simple configuration
[04:11:55] <jmkasunich> + addressing hardware drivers, and allows fir simple configuration
[04:12:02] <cradek> haha
[04:12:04] <cradek> allows fir
[04:12:20] <jmkasunich> "fix lots of spelling errors" ;-)
[04:12:27] <cradek> new revision: 1.15; previous revision: 1.14
[04:12:56] <jmkasunich> so, CIA and commit list tomorrow?
[04:13:15] <cradek> possibly, or wednesday if I'm as swamped at work as I was today
[04:13:25] <cradek> usually I have some time
[04:13:35] <jmkasunich> I'm really tickled that its this far this soon
[04:13:51] <cradek> me too, I'm really happy with the setup
[04:14:36] <jmkasunich> is it reasonable to rsync things like apache and cvsweb config files?
[04:14:37] <cradek> I'll wait to announce it to the list until the dns works (early tomorrow, I hope)
[04:14:53] <cradek> yes probably so
[04:14:58] <jmkasunich> (so setting up backup servers is simpler, and they benefit from any changes you make)
[04:15:27] <cradek> I wonder about syncing the system passwd files - I'll have to check into the nitty gritty of that.
[04:15:48] <cradek> I think you can sync master.passwd, and then run pwd_mkgen or whatever it is to generate the databases
[04:16:01] <cradek> pwd_mkdb
[04:16:46] <jmkasunich> the system password files won't be exactly the same anyway
[04:17:08] <cradek> well that's an issue I'm not sure how to solve
[04:17:13] <jmkasunich> for instance I have an account on this box, but not yours (and don't need one there)
[04:17:23] <cradek> each developer has an entry in the system passwd file
[04:17:26] <jmkasunich> every cvs user needs an account on the box, right?
[04:17:35] <cradek> yes but the cvs accounts are very restricted
[04:18:00] <jmkasunich> I wasn't thinking, I thought cvs passwords were part of the cvs sercer
[04:18:01] <jmkasunich> server
[04:18:20] <jmkasunich> but basically, users log into the _box_, not into cvs, then they access cvs
[04:18:21] <cradek> there's no such thing as a cvs password (except with pserver, which is insecure)
[04:18:27] <cradek> right
[04:18:42] <jmkasunich> so commit messages get sent from their account on the box, etc
[04:18:52] <cradek> with this setup, their system login only lets them do one thing: run cvs
[04:19:23] <jmkasunich> that sounds good
[04:19:30] <cradek> hmm, commit messages might be a trick, since it's chrooted
[04:19:31] <cradek> hmmmmmm
[04:19:32] <jmkasunich> but will probably complicate things like the commit list
[04:20:25] <cradek> that might be a little tricky. I'll rig something up.
[04:22:10] <jmkasunich> what did you wind up using for a box? old laptop?
[04:22:13] <cradek> yes
[04:25:10] <cradek> did you try a commit yet?
[04:25:30] <jmkasunich> no
[04:25:37] <jmkasunich> you want me to test it?
[04:25:55] <cradek> not necessary, I committed something, and we're about the same
[04:26:00] <jmkasunich> ok
[04:26:26] <jmkasunich> alex has some outstanding changes to hal_intro.lyx, after he commits I'm gonna do some editing on that
[04:26:47] <cradek> ok, I haven't set up his access yet, I'll do it now
[04:27:15] <jmkasunich> what version of cvs are you running?
[04:27:26] <cradek> Concurrent Versions System (CVS) 1.11.17-FreeBSD (client/server)
[04:27:31] <jmkasunich> ok
[04:27:43] <jmkasunich> once you figure out how to send mail, CIA should be easy
[04:27:53] <jmkasunich> there's a perl script
[04:28:07] <jmkasunich> Petr Baudis has written the definitive CIA client for the Concurrent Versions System, ciabot_cvs.pl. It is written in Perl, sends its commits over e-mail or XML-RPC, and even supports a simple system for client-side filtering of unwanted messages.
[04:28:14] <cradek> well yes and no
[04:28:19] <cradek> it's chrooted, so nothing is easy
[04:28:40] <jmkasunich> qe es chrooted?
[04:28:41] <cradek> I may sadly have to install perl in the chroot
[04:29:06] <cradek> a "sandbox" where the only program that exists is cvs, and the only data that exists is the cvs repository
[04:29:29] <jmkasunich> almost but not quite a qemu?
[04:29:52] <cradek> same amount of security without the complexity of emulating a computer
[04:30:27] <jmkasunich> reading wikipedia article
[04:31:58] <jmkasunich> links to an article about setting up a chroot jail for CVS ;-)
[04:32:08] <cradek> haha
[04:32:24] <cradek> cvs is a very good use for chroot jails
[04:32:46] <jmkasunich> so when a cvs user logs in, they log into the jail?
[04:33:20] <cradek> they log into the system and run "cvs" but that's actually another program that chroots and then runs the real cvs.
[04:34:32] <jmkasunich> http://www.ffnn.nl/pages/articles/linux/setting-up-a-chroot-jail-for-cvs.php
[04:34:41] <jmkasunich> little late now, but maybe handy anyway
[04:35:12] <cradek> eek
[04:35:17] <cradek> they use sudo and bash scripts
[04:35:18] <jmkasunich> ?
[04:35:25] <jmkasunich> what did you use?
[04:35:56] <cradek> one setuid c program that calls chroot()/setuid()
[04:36:15] <jmkasunich> a prog you wrote?
[04:36:29] <cradek> I found it somewhere, but it's easily auditable - only a few lines of C
[04:36:52] <jmkasunich> I wasn't thinking of auditing, I was thinking of preservation/backup
[04:37:11] <jmkasunich> gotta save that prog
[04:38:26] <jmkasunich> seems wasteful to have to copy over the binaries
[04:38:45] <jmkasunich> but I guess you don't want symlinks out of the jail to the real programs
[04:39:05] <cradek> symlinks can't point outside the jail, since your / is changed
[04:39:14] <jmkasunich> oh
[04:39:47] <jmkasunich> when we have conversations like this I feel really stupid
[04:40:00] <cradek> that's the point - the rest of the filesystem disappears
[04:40:12] <jmkasunich> yes
[04:40:19] <cradek> we'll have to talk about motor drivers someday then
[04:40:24] <jmkasunich> heh
[04:40:37] <jmkasunich> thanks, I feel better now ;-)
[04:41:07] <cradek> np
[04:41:15] <jmkasunich> seriously tho, its that "before, I thought I knew stuff, now I know how much I don't know"
[04:41:47] <jmkasunich> which probably happens to anybody who strays outside their area of expertise and talks to a real expert
[04:42:09] <jmkasunich> (real expert in another area, one they know superficially)
[04:42:31] <cradek> I think that's true
[04:42:52] <cradek> (though I'm not sure I'm a real expert)
[04:43:17] <cradek> probably pretty close for this kind of thing I guess.
[04:43:26] <jmkasunich> well in anything there is a hierarchy of experts
[04:43:36] <jmkasunich> you're several steps above me, even if not at the top
[04:43:55] <jmkasunich> and thats enough to induce "now I know how much I don't know" ;-)
[04:44:25] <jmkasunich> I felt good doing that iptables stuff last night tho!
[04:44:37] <cradek> yes that can be complex stuff
[04:44:52] <jmkasunich> I got thrown off by bad (outdated) info on the web
[04:44:56] <cradek> ok I have set up anon, alex_joni, cradek, jepler, jmkasunich - these are all the folks I have keys from so far
[04:45:20] <jmkasunich> you need root to add a user right?
[04:45:40] <cradek> yes
[04:45:45] <jmkasunich> so right now, _you_ have to do it
[04:45:48] <cradek> yes
[04:45:57] <jmkasunich> dunno how you feel about sharing that
[04:46:08] <cradek> how many developers do we add a year?
[04:46:10] <jmkasunich> but at a minimum you should share the list of steps that are needed
[04:46:15] <jmkasunich> not many
[04:46:35] <jmkasunich> I'm not thinking of workload
[04:46:40] <cradek> bus
[04:46:41] <jmkasunich> I'm thinking of single point of failure
[04:46:52] <cradek> documentation + backups fixes that
[04:46:59] <jmkasunich> ok
[04:47:10] <jmkasunich> "list of steps" = documentation
[04:47:35] <cradek> and the worst that happens is "the future team" (those not hit by buses) has a cvsroot and they have to find somewhere to host it - exactly our situation yesterday
[04:47:53] <jmkasunich> I suppose
[04:48:10] <cradek> hell if they're desperate they could send it to sourceforge
[04:48:11] <jmkasunich> except I think nobody else on the team could come close to what you've done in the last couple days
[04:48:39] <cradek> then they'd be looking for which hosting service to pay
[04:49:08] <jmkasunich> if we went to a service all we'd really need is the cvsroot backup?
[04:49:16] <cradek> yes
[04:49:19] <cradek> same as we got from sf
[04:49:23] <jmkasunich> (I guess we'd have to re-enter user lists and such as well)
[04:49:42] <cradek> sure, using whatever scheme the hoster uses (passwords maybe)
[04:50:23] <cradek> I like my public key scheme, were nobody knows anybody else's password, and no passwords are ever sent over the net
[04:50:26] <jmkasunich> re the CIA script:
[04:50:28] <jmkasunich> It should be noted that the more complex and larger a program gets, the more support files it will use. For example, perl requires a very large number of files and directories to work within a chroot()ed environment - 2610 files and 192 directories for a reasonable installation.
[04:50:44] <jmkasunich> ick
[04:50:48] <cradek> omfg
[04:51:51] <cradek> currently 6 files in 3 directories
[04:51:59] <jmkasunich> maybe theres another way
[04:52:04] <cradek> there'll have to be
[04:52:14] <jmkasunich> I haven't looked up the commit list scripts
[04:52:43] <jmkasunich> it might be possible to pass the commit list message thru the CIA stuff outside the jail
[04:52:54] <jmkasunich> user in jail commits and that results in a message being sent
[04:53:19] <jmkasunich> script outside jail is on the cc, and processes the message into cia format, then forwards to cia
[04:53:42] <cradek> it's true the outside world could poll the jail
[04:53:43] <jmkasunich> (that assumes the commit list script doesn't use perl)
[04:55:27] <cradek> I'll come up with something - probably not immediately though.
[04:55:34] <jmkasunich> no prob
[04:55:53] <jmkasunich> I imagine some form of backup (not neccessarily a backup server) is higher on the list
[04:56:08] <cradek> as soon as there are commits, yes
[04:56:08] <jmkasunich> just a backup of cvsroot
[04:57:51] <jmkasunich> how hard would it be to set up a cron job on cvs2 to rsync the cvsroot (nothing else, no apache, no cvsweb, etc)?
[04:58:01] <cradek> trivial
[04:58:30] <jmkasunich> "do it tonight" trivial, or "do it tommorrow" trivial?
[04:58:32] <jmkasunich> getting late
[04:58:47] <cradek> at midnight nothing is "do it tonight" trivial
[04:58:53] <jmkasunich> ok
[04:59:03] <cradek> I'm doing a rsync to my home machine
[04:59:08] <jmkasunich> that works
[04:59:23] <cradek> we still need backups though, rsync isn't enough. we'll have to figure that out.
[05:00:01] <jmkasunich> sounds like something for another day
[05:00:10] <cradek> well it's another day now
[05:00:13] <jmkasunich> you've done a ton these last couple says
[05:00:15] <jmkasunich> days
[05:00:17] <cradek> but maybe later today
[05:00:26] <jmkasunich> much later
[05:00:27] <cradek> yes, I agree :-)
[05:01:25] <jmkasunich> 1am here, I'm going to go to bed early tonight ;-)
[05:01:28] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[05:01:34] <cradek> g'night
[12:13:44] <alex_joni> morning ray
[12:15:36] <rayh> Hi alex_joni
[12:15:55] <rayh> I got motors running with m5i20 last night.
[12:25:30] <alex_joni> great stuff
[12:36:51] <rayh> Thanks. I really can't say that I like the pid much.
[12:39:38] <jepler_> emc2's pid, or something inside the m5i20?
[12:41:28] <rayh> emc2's
[12:42:01] <rayh> This is only my second tuning effort with it.
[16:41:53] <rayh> I see that we have work to do on the new cvs.
[16:42:27] <rayh> We need to get a note out to all developers regarding testing of all the configs.
[17:37:46] <jepler_> rayh: did you run into problems with cvs.linuxcnc.org?
[17:39:11] <rayh> what happened to "emc_log_isopen" in emcsh?
[17:39:23] <rayh> nothing yet.
[17:39:49] <jepler_> oh -- you said "we still have work to do"; I wondered what you meant.
[17:39:57] <rayh> Seems to be working okay here.
[17:40:21] <rayh> Ah there were a number of errors in the configs when the system was last saved.
[17:40:36] <rayh> I'm trying to work my way through those now.
[18:04:07] <rayh> What should we do with stepper-xyza? It raises these errors on my setup.
[18:04:44] <rayh> EMC2 - Prerelease CVS v2_0_branch
[18:04:44] <rayh> Machine configuration directory is '/home/rayh/emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/'
[18:04:44] <rayh> Machine configuration file is 'inch.ini'
[18:04:44] <rayh> Starting emc...
[18:04:44] <rayh> ERROR: could not find thread: 'THREAD (null)'
[18:04:45] <rayh> ERROR: could not set horizontal multiplier: 'HMULT 1'
[18:04:47] <rayh> ERROR: config file '.scope.cfg' caused 2 errors
[18:04:49] <rayh> Can't execute DISPLAY program /home/rayh/emc2-v2_0_branch/bin/axis
[18:05:04] <cradek> I swear I fixed that
[18:06:22] <alex_joni> DISPLAY = axis
[18:06:27] <alex_joni> you didn't ,)
[18:06:36] <cradek> ERROR: could not find thread: 'THREAD (null)'
[18:06:47] <cradek> or is that just because it's exiting?
[18:07:02] <rayh> i'm excited!
[18:07:17] <cradek> exiting, not exciting
[18:07:39] <cradek> exciticitixing
[18:07:57] <alex_joni> lol
[18:08:20] <cradek> rayh: if you don't have axis, try it with a different gui
[18:08:47] <rayh> What I was wondering is if we wanted to leave that.
[18:09:05] <rayh> Will all installed versions have Axis?
[18:09:12] <cradek> all ubuntu users will have an up-to-date axis
[18:09:38] <rayh> I am a ubuntu user and I guess I don't.
[18:09:51] <rayh> Or is this an enable-run-in-place thing?
[18:09:55] <cradek> yes
[18:10:08] <cradek> I mean the people using the release packages
[18:10:15] <rayh> Ah is that possible to fix?
[18:10:45] <cradek> yes, untar the axis source in emc2/src, and it will do the right thing automatically when you use run-in-place
[18:12:01] <cradek> then you have the source in your rip setup, just like for emc
[18:12:55] <jepler_> If you want to check in a change so it doesn't run with axis, that's fine by me
[18:13:37] <rayh> No my only concern was that we make as many of the configs run as possible.
[18:14:09] <rayh> What I was meaning to ask is can the config program be made to setup axis as well as the rest of emc for rip.
[18:14:23] <rayh> Or use a global variable for the installed location of it.
[18:14:27] <cradek> yes, it does that today, when you just put the source there for it to find
[18:14:52] <rayh> We are talking past each other.
[18:15:10] <rayh> This pc has a full install of testing that is up to date.
[18:15:21] <cradek> ok
[18:15:24] <rayh> It also has the extra packages that you provide for devel
[18:15:35] <cradek> right
[18:15:49] <rayh> I have not tried it but I'm guessing that Axis will run on the deb package.
[18:15:57] <cradek> right, it does
[18:16:48] <cradek> here's my thinking: if you want to run emc as a developer (rip) you get the source and build it. If you want to do the same with axis, you do the same (get the source and build it)
[18:16:53] <rayh> Sure it's there. Now what I'd like to do is make that same system automagically available to run in place folk.
[18:17:06] <jepler_> If you want to build a copy of axis at the same time you build emc2 --run-in-place, you can do that
[18:17:07] <rayh> That is not my thinking at all.
[18:17:38] <rayh> There will be many integrators who develop their system in place cause the other is so damned hard to find and make available for editing.
[18:17:44] <jepler_> get http://axis.unpy.net/files/downloads/nightly/axis-latest.tar.bz2 and untar it in emc2/src
[18:17:57] <rayh> No we are still on parallel tracks.
[18:17:58] <jepler_> in emc2/src run ./configure
[18:18:14] <jepler_> it will detect axis source
[18:18:27] <rayh> I would like it to be there regardless of where I'm running emc from.
[18:18:32] <jepler_> when run you 'make' it will install axis "in place" as well
[18:18:34] <cradek> rayh: I have only heard that from you. Perhaps there is a documentation bug.
[18:18:55] <rayh> No this is a configuration and run issue
[18:19:21] <cradek> rayh: you cannot convince me that getting cvs and compiling emc is somehow easier than copying a sample config to your home directory.
[18:19:57] <jepler_> are we talking about axis, or are we talking about config files?
[18:20:03] <rayh> Have you tried to do that. As a user you can't unless you sudo.
[18:20:08] <cradek> rayh: also, without an installed system, you don't have easy access to the man pages, another thing vital for understanding the system.
[18:20:18] <cradek> rayh: that's incorrect.
[18:20:19] <rayh> And having copied it all there you have to chmod in order to edit.
[18:20:28] <cradek> rayh: that's also incorrect.
[18:20:34] <rayh> I tried it last night on the phone with a friend.
[18:20:45] <cradek> mkdir -p ~/emc2/configs; cp -R /etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper ~/emc2/configs
[18:20:51] <cradek> no sudo
[18:20:52] <rayh> And you could NOT drag a copy of m5i20 out of etc.
[18:20:58] <cradek> now you can edit your sample config.
[18:21:25] <rayh> Right and I'm going to tell them to type that into a terminal.
[18:21:32] <cradek> NB I have not tried it with any gui tool.
[18:21:45] <rayh> Why not a button on picker that does it like l had originally.
[18:22:06] <rayh> Right and it does not work with a gui tool
[18:22:07] <cradek> how do they compile emc for rip without typing?? again that can NOT be easier
[18:22:19] <rayh> sure it is.
[18:23:12] <rayh> except for that damnably long ./configure --enable-run-in-place
[18:23:24] <rayh> but those are english words that I can use over the phone.
[18:23:35] <cradek> I'll try this with the gui.
[18:23:44] <rayh> Thanks
[18:24:00] <alex_joni> * alex_joni uses mc all the time, and doing that is trivial in mc
[18:24:11] <rayh> In the mean time, is there a link to the existing Axis that I can sim to make it work with a rip.
[18:24:28] <rayh> Right and now I've got to teach them to use mc as well.
[18:24:42] <alex_joni> rayh: no you don't ..
[18:24:49] <rayh> I think we are rapidly retreating from any sort of tillie izing.
[18:24:54] <alex_joni> I just told you what _I_ am confortable with
[18:25:19] <rayh> * rayh would be comfortable with a copy button on the picker.
[18:26:04] <rayh> I used mc a lot with BDI. There was no other good way to do some things.
[18:26:28] <rayh> mc is not a part of a stock ubuntu release.
[18:26:45] <alex_joni> no, but it's in universe, so you can apt-get for it
[18:28:01] <rayh> I see that. But still we are talking major extra steps for a Ubuntu installer/user.
[18:28:24] <alex_joni> major?
[18:29:49] <rayh> Maybe that was to strong a word.
[18:34:42] <cradek> ok jepler copied and edited a sample config using the gui. he will put instructions on the wiki.
[18:35:31] <cradek> remember if you use rip, you lose all benefit of the auto updates, so you'll have to help each customer every time there's an update.
[18:36:15] <cradek> our test shows the permissions work out fine by default and sudo is not required.
[18:39:32] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CustomizingConfigsOnUbuntu
[18:40:12] <cradek> brb
[18:49:41] <rayh> Okay works here. Not the drag and drop solution I was imagining for folk who are accustomed to that.Only issue I see with it is double click
[19:03:41] <cradek> double click is an issue?
[19:03:46] <cradek> howso?
[19:08:11] <rayh> Some like me turn it off.
[19:08:48] <rayh> And it is possible to double click and get where you don't get where you really want to be.
[19:09:43] <rayh> really dont ...
[19:10:44] <cradek> fwiw, control+drag copies
[19:11:02] <cradek> drag only tries to move the sample folder, which is not what you want (and you don't have the permissions necessary to remove it)
[19:11:09] <cradek> so if you want to drag, hold down control
[19:12:32] <rayh> Okay. Proves I'm never to old to learn.
[19:13:04] <cradek> yay
[19:13:13] <cradek> so you will start using the packages for customers?
[19:13:37] <rayh> btw ln -s /usr/bin/axis in the emc2/bin dir works to make axis available
[19:14:11] <cradek> that often will break, because they may not match (the canon API)
[19:14:30] <cradek> for instance if you do that today, and load a program with G33 in it, axis will give an error, even though the program will run fine
[19:14:55] <cradek> so I do NOT recommend that practice. if you need RIP for development, you should have axis source too, and compile them together
[19:15:33] <jepler_> that gets back to what I was talking about earlier. If you want help setting up axis 1.3 so it automatically builds with emc2 we can talk about that
[19:16:15] <jepler_> (it's still an extra download and untar, though)
[19:16:18] <rayh> I wasn't suggesting that I wanted that ability. I was suggesting that we wanted that ability.
[19:16:43] <cradek> we have it, but it sounds like you don't know how to do it, that's what jepler is offering to help with.
[19:17:18] <jepler_> it's not well-documented yet, and it doesn't work with axis 1.2.
[19:18:31] <jepler_> untar axis-latest.tar.gz inside emc2/src, and re-run configure
[19:18:39] <rayh> phone
[19:18:40] <jepler_> it automatically builds axis into emc2/bin, emc2/share
[19:18:54] <jepler_> (well, the subsequent "make" builds axis)
[19:22:51] <alex_joni> cradek: does mailing to emc-commit work?
[19:35:28] <cradek> alex_joni: I don't have that set up yet
[19:37:01] <alex_joni> ok
[19:42:28] <alex_joni> cradek: the new cvsweb.cgi is really great
[19:43:22] <cradek> thanks, I really like the graphs
[19:43:53] <alex_joni> yeah, one thing though.. (minor rant), could it be configured to display the newest version on top, and the oldest on the bottom?
[19:44:00] <alex_joni> in the graphs I mean
[19:44:23] <cradek> I'll look
[19:44:25] <alex_joni> of course, only if there's an option for that, wouldn't want you to go recoding anything
[19:44:53] <cradek> there are a lot of options
[19:45:29] <alex_joni> what was the lyx incantation for ubuntu?
[19:45:41] <alex_joni> apt-get install lyx-foo?
[19:45:41] <cradek> pretty sure I just did apt-get install lyx
[19:46:01] <alex_joni> hrmm.. from universe?
[19:46:10] <cradek> I turned the graph over, not sure I like it, but we'll try it for a while
[19:46:15] <cradek> I'm not sure where it came from
[19:47:41] <alex_joni> it's not found without universe/multiverse
[19:47:59] <cradek> hmm
[19:48:02] <cradek> I'm 90% sure that's all I did
[19:48:08] <cradek> did you apt-get update?
[19:48:27] <alex_joni> yeah, but you probably already had the universe/multiverse enabled from /etc/apt/sources.lst
[19:48:44] <cradek> oh withOUT
[19:48:47] <cradek> I didn't read it right
[19:48:51] <alex_joni> withOUT
[19:48:51] <cradek> yes I probably have those enabled
[19:50:20] <alex_joni> it's probably a sane thing to do
[20:02:09] <rayh> For lyx to complete the job of processing words, it needs several other packages which is why I started that wiki page.
[20:03:11] <alex_joni> apt-get install lyx seems to work here
[20:03:22] <alex_joni> I can edit the lyx files now
[20:03:55] <alex_joni> but I probably lack imagemagic for the pictures
[20:05:05] <rayh> The lyx install worked fine here as well.
[20:05:45] <rayh> By editing the preferences you can get it to show pdf with evince.
[20:06:08] <rayh> Although that is not one of the default pdf viewers that it looks for.
[20:06:28] <rayh> Again I'm thinking within the ubuntu stuff.
[20:07:44] <alex_joni> ok, I'll worry about learning to edit for now :)
[20:07:50] <alex_joni> and converting to pdf later :)
[20:25:01] <alex_joni> cradek: I am missing CIA :)
[20:25:11] <alex_joni> but I know you're working on it :P
[20:25:20] <cradek> yes, sorry
[20:25:30] <alex_joni> don't mean to stress you..
[20:26:03] <cradek> nah, you're not a cause of stress
[20:26:17] <cradek> I intend to get the commit mails working first, then tackle CIA
[20:26:27] <cradek> I think the mails are more important
[20:29:26] <alex_joni> yup
[20:31:42] <alex_joni> are you aware of CVSSpam ?
[20:32:34] <alex_joni> just googled around and found it.. seems VERY capable
[20:32:36] <cradek> no, I haven't looked that far, still trying to get outgoing mail from the chroot
[20:32:43] <alex_joni> here's an example of what it can send:
[20:32:45] <alex_joni> http://www.badgers-in-foil.co.uk/projects/cvsspam/example.html
[20:33:17] <cradek> * cradek 's eyes cross at the pastel colors
[20:33:21] <jepler_> HTML e-mails? No thanks.
[20:33:31] <cradek> I want a udiff, nothing else
[20:33:37] <jepler_> I'm with cradek
[20:33:44] <cradek> and the log message
[20:33:51] <jepler_> though links into the web interface are a nice plus
[20:33:57] <jepler_> cradek: (those are in the axis commits, aren't they?)
[20:34:05] <cradek> yes that would be nice
[20:34:10] <cradek> I don't know, I must never use them
[20:34:20] <alex_joni> http://www.badgers-in-foil.co.uk/projects/cvsspam/example-simple.html
[20:34:32] <alex_joni> it also can look basic enough
[20:34:39] <cradek> yay, a udiff
[20:34:53] <alex_joni> cradek: :P
[20:34:55] <cradek> now if you remove the colors, it'd be perfect
[20:35:09] <cradek> and send it in ascii, of course
[20:35:12] <jepler_> and use text instead of html
[20:35:15] <cradek> :-P
[20:35:32] <cradek> alex_joni: seriously, thanks for looking, but I hope there's something simpler
[20:54:34] <alex_joni> ok:)
[20:57:27] <jepler_> and not HTML
[20:59:19] <alex_joni> then maybe this helps: http://www.bpfh.net/simes/computing/chroot-break.html
[21:00:56] <anonimasu> ^_^
[21:02:11] <alex_joni> cradek: seriously now: http://axljab.homelinux.org/Chroot_with_sSMTP
[21:02:51] <cradek> A very important aspect of writing secure code is the principle of "least privilage".
[21:03:11] <jepler_> e-mail is working now; it's the perl-based CIA code that's the problem now.
[21:03:19] <cradek> another slightly important aspect might be the principle of "least privilege".
[21:03:30] <cradek> jepler_: you speak too soon
[21:03:39] <cradek> unless if by working, you mean almost working
[21:03:50] <jepler_> (right?)
[21:04:38] <anonimasu> cia code?
[21:04:40] <jepler_> oh well
[21:04:51] <jepler_> (and why was there such a delay between "working now" and "right?")
[21:05:07] <jepler_> anonimasu: you know .. the kind that we're mandated to have because the source originally came from NIST.GOV?
[21:05:14] <alex_joni> there are quite a few cvs mailers here.. (Related software) http://www.badgers-in-foil.co.uk/projects/cvsspam/
[21:05:25] <alex_joni> jepler_: the CIA stuff is not that old
[21:06:19] <alex_joni> http://cia.navi.cx/doc/clients
[21:06:53] <jepler_> alex_joni: I was trying to string anonimasu with a worrying story that it had something to do with the US government .. sorry if it didn't work as a joke.
[21:07:27] <alex_joni> lol, ok ;)
[21:07:38] <alex_joni> the stuff that needs to be sent to CIA seems rather simple
[21:07:39] <alex_joni> http://cia.navi.cx/clients/bk/ciabot_bk.sh
[21:08:04] <alex_joni> I bet cradek can code/adapt that in a blink
[21:09:37] <jepler_> yeah that looks pretty simple
[21:10:57] <anonimasu> jepler_: haha ;)
[21:11:00] <anonimasu> I remember what cia is now
[21:11:02] <anonimasu> *grins*
[21:11:37] <rayh> oh that cia!
[21:12:00] <alex_joni> I'm not worried about the cia
[21:12:12] <alex_joni> it's the uncalled ss'es that worry me ;)
[21:51:40] <alex_joni> rayh: didn't expect that many visitors to linuxcnc.org
[21:54:42] <rayh> let me look.
[21:55:26] <rayh> Quite a few hits there.
[21:55:45] <alex_joni> yup, for a bit over 24h it's great
[21:59:50] <rayh> The stats are awesome. Stuff like referrer
[22:01:39] <rayh> make some interesting reading.
[22:02:05] <alex_joni> yeah, was browsing those too :)
[22:06:27] <rayh> Neat stuff.
[22:06:54] <rayh> BTW We are trying to figure a way into the server we talked about so you can install a wiki.
[22:08:52] <alex_joni> ok
[22:08:58] <alex_joni> but I hope not tonight :)
[22:09:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to bed
[22:09:43] <alex_joni> night all
[22:11:33] <LawrenceG> cradek: Chris you about?
[22:15:06] <rayh> new revision: 1.6; previous revision: 1.5
[22:15:06] <rayh> done
[22:15:06] <rayh> cvs [commit aborted]: received broken pipe signal
[22:15:22] <rayh> I think he stepped away from the box for a bit.
[22:16:03] <LawrenceG> ok... wanted to pick his brain about acad... and his realize.lsp pgm
[22:16:39] <LawrenceG> time for an afternoon snooze here... sun is very nice to see
[22:18:47] <rayh> Snowed this morning. Nice sun in the afternoon.
[22:19:53] <LawrenceG> we are well into spring here... had to cut grass yesterday... weeds are growing and plums tree flowers are just about done
[22:22:27] <rayh> Way ahead of us.
[22:55:05] <jepler_> here, it'll be 70s tomorrow
[22:55:07] <jepler_> it was nice today too
[23:16:15] <rayh> See you tomorrow.