#emc-devel | Logs for 2006-04-03

[01:48:43] <jmk_away> jmk_away is now known as jmkasunich
[15:08:28] <rayh_> rayh_ is now known as rayh
[16:09:35] <jepler> speaking of the "Testing" page, are those notes about Recent Improvements up-to-date?
[16:12:37] <rayh> Testing page ought to be renamed or separated into testing and rolling-your-own.
[16:12:46] <jepler> Yeah
[16:12:47] <jepler> I was thinking that
[16:13:05] <jepler> Almost all of the instructions apply whether you're going to use Testing, HEAD, or any other CVS tag
[16:13:13] <rayh> Took me the longest time to find the correct instructions for apt-get build-dep emc2
[16:22:27] <jepler> What do any of you think of changing the Installing EMC2 page to follow the outline I put at the bottom: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
[16:25:43] <alex_joni> jepler: seems ok to me
[16:41:33] <rayh> good
[16:57:11] <alex_joni> rayh: think I should add something like this: http://bsqdemo.bs-squared.com/index.php?option=com_bsq_sitestats&Itemid=31 ?
[16:58:15] <alex_joni> everyone elses opinion is also appreciated ;)
[17:00:12] <rayh> Nice. Shows the big picture
[17:02:51] <alex_joni> ok, then I'll do it
[17:36:24] <alex_joni> it's working great
[17:36:46] <alex_joni> most of data can be seen on the backend though, not sure we want to publish it on the frontend
[17:37:17] <alex_joni> rayh: you can go to Admin, then on the top Menu, Components->BSQ Sitestats->Show Stats
[17:37:37] <rayh> I don't think it will hurt us to let users see site stats.
[17:38:51] <alex_joni> even graphs?
[17:39:01] <alex_joni> there is a short summary now on the left menu
[17:41:47] <rayh> The numbers there must be the same because it just started?
[17:42:02] <alex_joni> yup
[17:42:26] <alex_joni> tomorrow they will start to differ
[17:42:52] <alex_joni> at least the 'Today' from the rest, next week the 'Week' will differ, and so on ;)
[17:55:59] <rayh> That looks really great, alex
[19:03:15] <rayh> I've got an annoying something stuck in ubuntu.
[19:03:51] <rayh> If I try to fire up the screenshot it asks for authentication of an ftp login someplace.
[19:04:16] <rayh> does it about a dozen times then shows the screenshot widget.
[19:04:46] <rayh> It will also often do it when I browse my local filesystem or start another program.
[19:10:27] <jepler> man, lots of 500s when editing pages on the wiki
[19:13:26] <jepler> or even just visiting pages
[19:13:28] <jepler> what a pita
[19:15:41] <rayh> 500s??
[19:16:26] <cradek> jepler: don't tell anyone, but I've been thinking about moving it off sf too.
[19:17:28] <cradek> rayh: I just looked through the ladder wikipage - it is over my head - it must be intended for someone who already knows some about classicladder?
[19:19:23] <rayh> What's the link to that?
[19:19:29] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Sample_HAL_And_ClassicLadder
[19:19:46] <jepler> anyfeedback about http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2 is welcome
[19:20:19] <rayh> Ah okay. let me look at both of these.
[19:20:31] <alex_joni> cradek: I thought it's hard too, but playing with it for a couple of minutes got me started
[19:20:37] <alex_joni> you need to know what a ladder is though
[19:20:41] <alex_joni> and how to read it :)
[19:20:46] <jepler> oh heck, I lost some text
[19:21:05] <alex_joni> http://www.joomla.org/content/blogcategory/0/33/
[19:21:08] <alex_joni> YAY
[19:21:23] <cradek> alex_joni: yes I don't know that
[19:21:25] <jepler> I wonder if I should leave it out .. it was a list of the depends and build-depends from the ubuntu packages, under the "RTAI from scratch" section
[19:21:39] <alex_joni> cradek: I can give you a head start one day if you want
[19:22:00] <cradek> alex_joni: -||--|/|-|\|--|| looks like a fence, not logic, to me
[19:22:28] <cradek> alex_joni: I don't need it, I just wonder if something could be added to the wikipage for newbies like me to understand it.
[19:22:31] <alex_joni> cradek: -| |- means a normal open contact ;)
[19:22:42] <alex_joni> -|/|- is normal closed
[19:23:04] <alex_joni> a rung (a row in a ladder) is something that current passes through
[19:23:05] <cradek> -()-?
[19:23:19] <alex_joni> current can't pass through a -| |- unless the user pushes it
[19:23:22] <alex_joni> right?
[19:23:41] <alex_joni> current passes through -|/|- UNTIL the user pushes it
[19:24:01] <cradek> ok, I understand NO vs NC
[19:24:03] <alex_joni> ladder gets evaluated left to right, top to bottom
[19:24:13] <rayh> alex_joni, is giving away the secret decoder ring
[19:24:18] <alex_joni> on the left and middle there are inputs Ixx
[19:24:23] <cradek> put the decoder ring on the wiki
[19:24:24] <alex_joni> on the right there are outputs Qxx
[19:24:30] <cradek> seriously
[19:24:35] <alex_joni> I'm not sure what the needed level is..
[19:24:40] <cradek> this is perfect
[19:24:49] <alex_joni> was wondering if you get it.. :)
[19:24:56] <cradek> gear it toward "not a moron" but "has never seen ladders before"
[19:25:07] <alex_joni> ok.. I'll do that later today
[19:25:11] <cradek> yay thanks
[19:25:40] <jepler> I agree; I am not familiar with ladder logic either
[19:25:53] <alex_joni> ok, I'll put it on my mental to-do list
[19:26:03] <jepler> but I hope i'm "not a moron"
[19:26:23] <alex_joni> you wouldn't be in here if you were ;)
[19:26:47] <cradek> I dunno, you let me in
[19:27:00] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is proud of who he let in
[19:27:40] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes away for a while..
[19:27:55] <alex_joni> but we're mentioned right on top of joomla.org/news ;)
[19:28:13] <rayh> jepler, It would help to mention apt-get cvs either in the cvs section or above near the apt-get build-dep
[19:28:27] <rayh> That is neat, alex. Great work.
[19:28:31] <jepler> rayh: good catch; I'll add that
[19:30:03] <jepler> """
[19:30:03] <jepler> Finally, if you plan to use cvs, install the client:
[19:30:03] <jepler> sudo apt-get install cvs
[19:30:05] <jepler> """
[19:31:42] <rayh> I tripped over it the other day while setting up a system over the phone. Was I embarassed.
[19:32:20] <rayh> alex_joni, you want to add the ladder intro you just put here or should I?
[19:42:25] <rayh> I'm editing the ClassicLadder page at the wiki to add a ladder programming intro.
[20:16:13] <alex_joni> rayh: that's ok, it saves me from doing it :)
[20:17:59] <alex_joni> cradek: I've seen you sent an email to the list
[20:18:10] <alex_joni> but I didn't get it, I got Gene's reply to it though
[20:28:52] <jepler> alex_joni: which thread?
[20:33:33] <alex_joni> about the CVS move
[20:33:37] <cradek> I got the message I sent
[20:35:03] <alex_joni> * alex_joni still didn't get it
[20:55:19] <rayh> I'm in the middle of the stuff now. Getting bigger as I go along but I need to do this for fest anyway.
[20:58:08] <cradek> alex_joni: I don't know why you don't have the message yet, but gene quoted it in its entirety (as usual)
[20:58:27] <alex_joni> yeah, this is the first time I'm gratefull for that :D
[20:58:40] <cradek> haha
[21:00:28] <alex_joni> but I still didn't get it :(
[21:00:57] <cradek> several people obviously have
[21:02:29] <alex_joni> obviously?
[21:02:35] <alex_joni> you mean more answered?
[21:06:31] <cradek> sorry I mean several people received the message
[21:08:26] <alex_joni> right.. just not me ;(
[21:08:41] <jepler> cradek: what do you think of putting the axis cvs on the same machine vs keeping it on my system?
[21:09:02] <jepler> cradek: I'm still not sure the set of emc developers and the set of axis developers should be the same
[21:09:08] <alex_joni> and slowly it'll kreep into the emc2 cvs :D
[21:09:14] <alex_joni> kidding
[21:09:15] <jepler> and I'm not going to ask you to complicate this new system just to make that possible
[21:09:34] <cradek> jepler: I did take into account that there might be several separate chrooted cvses with different users
[21:09:46] <jepler> alex_joni: as crazy as it must sound coming from me, I'd still like to see axis on systems like bdi4emc
[21:09:52] <jepler> (for the sake of the users)
[21:10:06] <cradek> if we do that, I want to do it after emc is working
[21:10:08] <alex_joni> jepler: what if there were no users :)
[21:10:26] <alex_joni> jepler: kidding aside, I can understand that
[21:11:08] <alex_joni> but then again.. AXIS on emc2 would be a big argument for it :) (if it didn't work on BDI)
[21:11:31] <alex_joni> I mean argument for users to switch to emc2 :-)
[21:11:42] <cradek> that's silly
[21:11:51] <alex_joni> I am only joking..
[21:11:58] <cradek> oh
[21:12:15] <alex_joni> thought you'll get that.. was playing the PC attitude ;-)
[21:12:50] <alex_joni> in the end everyone should use what they are comfortable with
[21:13:08] <alex_joni> even if it's mach ;)
[21:14:50] <jepler> who knows; maybe during the axis 1.3 cycle I'll change my mind
[21:14:57] <jepler> (cradek gets a say too, of course)
[21:15:09] <cradek> as long as it's relatively easy to keep compatibility, I think we should.
[21:15:22] <cradek> if it becomes hard, we'll decide then
[21:22:16] <alex_joni> hmm.. I got an email from zwisk on the devel list
[21:22:22] <alex_joni> but still not chris'es
[21:45:40] <alex_joni> cradek: did you get the mail from jonathan stark?
[21:46:35] <jepler> I saw it; that's why I mentioned AXIS CVS earlier
[21:49:06] <alex_joni> he even said svn
[21:50:52] <jepler> yeah he said svn, but I don't think that's in the cards
[21:51:41] <alex_joni> how come? I know it's a big move, and our developers are a problem..
[21:51:50] <alex_joni> any other reasons?
[22:00:04] <jepler> a little bird told me that the new cvs-based system is essentially done
[22:00:39] <alex_joni> was it a cuckoo?
[22:00:59] <jepler> no, some other kind
[22:01:12] <alex_joni> you know the one that you find in clocks
[22:01:13] <alex_joni> :)
[22:01:40] <jepler> maybe a sandhill crane.
[22:01:44] <jepler> http://photos.unpy.net/187339/187402/
[22:01:49] <alex_joni> http://3gnewsroom.mobiles.co.uk/images/gadgets/cuckoo-sheep-op-f-169.jpg
[22:02:52] <alex_joni> this one is great: http://photos.unpy.net/187339/187386/
[22:03:26] <jepler> I really like some of the bird photos I got on that trip, but most of them need more curves/levels adjustment than I did at the time
[22:03:51] <jepler> that place, Bosque del Apache, is really great; it's too bad we only had one day there.
[22:04:05] <alex_joni> http://photos.unpy.net/187339/187437/
[22:04:26] <jepler> I've got that one on my office wall
[22:04:40] <alex_joni> heh, nice
[22:04:52] <alex_joni> btw I made a banner the other day 2m x 3m
[22:04:55] <alex_joni> was pretty cheap
[22:05:04] <alex_joni> maybe I'll do one with a picture I took some day
[22:05:05] <alex_joni> :)
[22:05:07] <jepler> inkjet?
[22:05:15] <alex_joni> not sure, I ordered it
[22:05:17] <jepler> oh
[22:05:24] <alex_joni> but it was about 10EUR/m^2
[22:05:54] <jepler> I printed a few photos on work's large-format inkjet -- I think it's 36" wide -- but the quality wasn't that great.
[22:06:34] <alex_joni> this wasn't that great either (closeup) because I only made the stuff at 72 dpi
[22:06:45] <alex_joni> I think I sent you the jpeg a while ago
[22:08:00] <jepler> my camera's 3072x2048, so a 2m x 3m print would be only 26dpi.
[22:08:19] <alex_joni> yup..that could be a problem ;)
[22:11:20] <jepler> I bet it's fine from a viewing distance of about 1 meter
[22:11:28] <jepler> er, 3 meter
[22:11:44] <jepler> somewhere between?
[22:12:17] <alex_joni> at that size you don't look at it from 3m
[22:12:23] <alex_joni> you go further away ;)
[22:12:47] <alex_joni> http://www.robcon.ro/emc/HPIM9955.JPG
[22:13:46] <jepler> just reading this: http://clarkvision.com/imagedetail/eye-resolution.html
[22:14:25] <jepler> aka at what distance does a 1mm feature cover .0003 radians
[22:14:28] <jepler> but maybe I botched the math
[22:15:26] <alex_joni> lol
[22:15:39] <alex_joni> I think it's easier to print it out :)
[22:16:00] <alex_joni> make a 10x10" picture at 24 dpi and you'll know at what distance it's fine
[22:16:57] <alex_joni> seen the image above?
[22:17:02] <jepler> yeah I did look at it
[22:17:12] <alex_joni> btw, what speed are you getting from that server?
[22:17:25] <alex_joni> that was ok starting at about .5m or less
[22:18:05] <alex_joni> YAY, finally I got chris'es email
[22:18:08] <jepler> let me run a wget
[22:18:10] <alex_joni> only 2 hours late
[22:18:44] <jepler> 146.48 KB/s on a 1.5mbps dsl line
[22:20:19] <alex_joni> hmm.. so not filling up
[22:20:30] <alex_joni> but I guess that's enough..
[22:21:20] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: you're not early ;) I'm late again
[22:21:41] <jmkasunich> I am early, its only 6:21 pm
[22:21:57] <alex_joni> and that's early?
[22:22:05] <alex_joni> it'll be early when I'll wake up today
[22:22:08] <alex_joni> :)
[22:22:08] <jmkasunich> usually I don't get online till 8ish on weekdays
[22:22:19] <jmkasunich> what time is it there? midnight?
[22:22:27] <alex_joni> 01:26
[22:22:32] <jmkasunich> oh
[22:22:38] <jmkasunich> go to bed
[22:22:46] <alex_joni> yeah, I was just about to
[22:22:52] <jmkasunich> (I was up till 3 last night, really stupid)
[22:23:35] <alex_joni> freebsd stuff?
[22:23:44] <alex_joni> I read some logs
[22:23:59] <jmkasunich> yes
[22:24:15] <jmkasunich> one of the compile farms will be a backup to chris's server
[22:24:23] <jmkasunich> we should have a couple more as well
[22:24:47] <jmkasunich> mine would be the last chosen as a working server, since I don't have static IP
[22:25:08] <alex_joni> yeah, I'll setup one too these days
[22:25:53] <alex_joni> but .. not sure how.. I got sidetracked today :)
[22:26:00] <alex_joni> didn't do much all day long
[22:26:03] <jmkasunich> go to sleep
[22:26:10] <jmkasunich> time for dinner here soon
[22:26:26] <alex_joni> I added statistics to linuxcnc though
[22:26:44] <alex_joni> and I was pretty much impressed with the traffic
[22:26:54] <alex_joni> about 164 visitors in the last couple of hours
[22:26:57] <jmkasunich> wow
[22:27:20] <jmkasunich> I tried the IRC widget from work, didn't work
[22:27:23] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: you can log in to admin, there's a new component which you can use for statistics
[22:27:26] <jmkasunich> probably firewalled
[22:27:26] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: :(
[22:27:35] <alex_joni> did the java stuff show?
[22:27:48] <jmkasunich> yeah, I got an IRC window with buttons and stuff
[22:27:53] <jmkasunich> just no connection (timed out)
[22:28:03] <alex_joni> oh, but it couldn't connect.. :( .. probably firewalled
[22:28:18] <alex_joni> there was another way to do that..
[22:28:27] <alex_joni> maybe one day I'll bother to set that up
[22:28:36] <alex_joni> flash client with some gateway
[22:28:38] <jmkasunich> not a problem, it would probably be a bad thing if I could IRC from work
[22:28:46] <rayh> brb hardware change.
[22:29:04] <alex_joni> so the gateway does the connection to IRC, and the flash client only connects to linuxcnc.org
[22:29:23] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: it _is_ a bad thing, I do it sometimes :)
[22:29:31] <jmkasunich> am I supposed to log in as admin, or myself?
[22:29:43] <alex_joni> either way..
[22:30:13] <alex_joni> Components->BSQ Sitestats->Show stats
[22:30:28] <jmkasunich> well either jmkasunich doesn't have an account, or I forgot the pw
[22:30:36] <jmkasunich> I tried the admin one, and a couple other possibilities
[22:36:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[22:36:45] <alex_joni> g'night all