#emc-devel | Logs for 2006-04-01

[00:42:20] <jmkasunich> dang... SF is estimating the CVS outage to last 48 hours _minimum_
[02:08:59] <jmkasunich> a lot of content from the former linuxcnc website is now missing!
[02:46:18] <dan_falck> jmkasunich: I have a copy of the links page, since that was the only thing that I ever edited on linuxcnc in the past
[02:53:23] <dan_falck> gotta go. lightning in the area
[04:06:27] <cradek> jmkasunich: what's missing?
[04:50:48] <jmkasunich> on further investigation, I'm not sure what is missing and what is just massively re-arranged
[04:50:57] <jmkasunich> the bdi page is missing
[04:52:07] <jmkasunich> (I was looking for the list of mirrors so I could get bdi isos for the new farm)
[04:57:09] <jmk_cf> cradek: you still around?
[04:57:29] <cradek> yes
[04:57:40] <cradek> half awake
[04:57:47] <jmk_cf> did you get networking to work with qemu?
[04:57:59] <jmk_cf> the docs are _not_ clear
[04:58:19] <cradek> if you only need outgoing connections, just run it with -user-net
[04:58:26] <cradek> it's kind of like nat
[04:58:46] <jmk_cf> I got the impression that -user-net meant no actual internet access, just faked
[04:59:06] <cradek> no, you'll have outgoing
[04:59:26] <cradek> even dhcp worked when I installed ubuntu
[04:59:48] <jmk_cf> I started the ubuntu install without specifying -user-net
[04:59:53] <jmk_cf> I wonder if I should start over?
[05:00:10] <cradek> it won't find networking
[05:00:18] <cradek> how far into it are you?
[05:00:25] <jmk_cf> not too far
[05:00:37] <jmk_cf> probably should start over
[05:00:41] <cradek> probably easiest to start over, otherwise you can set up networking later
[05:00:51] <cradek> it just won't find a "network card"
[05:02:16] <jmk_cf> restarted
[05:02:37] <jmk_cf> how long did the ubuntu install take for you?
[05:03:55] <cradek> not sure, I went to bed
[05:04:07] <cradek> it probably takes a couple times as long as a normal install
[05:04:36] <jmk_cf> did you get the "QEMU accelerator" or are you using straight QEMU?
[05:04:45] <cradek> I didn't mess with the accelerator
[05:04:56] <cradek> I tried it on redhat9, and didn't see much difference
[05:05:17] <jmk_cf> the webpage implies perhaps 2:1 or better....
[05:06:50] <cradek> I was using autocad in dos which might not be the kind of thing it helps a lot with
[05:07:58] <jmk_cf> well, I'm just using vanilla qemu right now... but the whole purpose of this excercise is to get faster compile farm results......
[05:08:04] <cradek> I love sf's site status page that says they might try to fix cvs come monday
[05:08:14] <jmk_cf> yeah
[05:08:41] <cradek> I think we need to move, I just don't know where to
[05:08:48] <jmk_cf> on one hand, I'm tempted to contribute to SF, after all I've been leeching off their service for two or three years now
[05:09:09] <jmk_cf> on the other "for this service I'm supposed to pay money?"
[05:09:12] <cradek> I contribute to freenode because the service is good and they asked nicely
[05:09:53] <cradek> but sf is another story. I also would be more likely to pay them if there wasn't irritating advertising splattered everywhere on their site
[05:10:04] <jmk_cf> yeah
[05:10:16] <cradek> some of the ads pop up over the links I want if I accidentally mouse over them
[05:10:27] <jmk_cf> the new site layout is definitely a step backwards, it seems to be optimized for ads
[05:10:28] <cradek> that kind of crap bugs the heck out of me
[05:11:36] <jmk_cf> its pretty clear the ubuntu installer is not SMP ;-)
[05:11:48] <jmk_cf> one CPU is at 100%, the other at <10%
[05:12:02] <cradek> your qemu process runs on just one processor
[05:12:11] <jmk_cf> duh, right
[05:12:18] <jmk_cf> now if I was running two qemus at once....
[05:12:22] <cradek> right
[05:12:40] <cradek> you could start another install if you have an iso
[05:12:43] <jmk_cf> every so often the CPUs flip places
[05:13:36] <jmk_cf> I've got several
[05:13:52] <jmk_cf> BDI-2.20, TNG, and 4.27
[05:13:58] <jmk_cf> downloading BDI-Live-rc46
[05:14:03] <jmk_cf> and of course ubuntu
[05:14:12] <jmk_cf> I also want to download BDI-4.38
[05:14:41] <jmk_cf> maybe I'll start the 2.20 install
[05:15:18] <cradek> hope those old installs see the "network card" without too much dinking
[05:18:26] <cradek> I guess even the dos network client sees it if I use qemu -isa
[05:18:31] <jmk_cf> it emulates a NE2000 card, that is as old as dirt
[05:18:40] <cradek> yep
[05:20:30] <cradek> I'm kind of bummed - I spent $80 on this encoder and I don't know if I'll ever make a real part with this setup
[05:20:52] <jmk_cf> you should be able to move the encoder to your lathe eventually
[05:21:11] <cradek> I looked into getting the minimum sherline parts I'd need to cnc my lathe (using my existing drivers) but it's like $300 ($500 if I get the good encoder ray is getting)
[05:22:06] <cradek> I'm not sure the sherline is worth that kind of money - it has serious size limitations (which is why I bought a bigger lathe, and it cost <$500)
[05:22:13] <jmk_cf> what parts does that include? motors? or just motor mounts?
[05:22:24] <cradek> motor mounts and motors, that's it
[05:23:38] <cradek> I lied, the motor mounts alone are $200
[05:23:44] <cradek> plus $75 ea for two motors
[05:23:45] <jmk_cf> ouch
[05:24:07] <jmk_cf> not worth it for such a tiny machine
[05:24:09] <cradek> so I'm near $400 with no spindle encoder
[05:24:14] <cradek> nope
[05:24:24] <jmk_cf> you could reuse your $80 encoder
[05:24:28] <cradek> I'd pay that to cnc my big lathe, but it's probably too sloppy to be useful. it's pretty worn.
[05:25:13] <jmk_cf> shit
[05:25:18] <cradek> the $200 encoder ray bought has a hole in the middle - very easy to set up
[05:25:32] <cradek> oh well
[05:25:32] <jmk_cf> I just realized that I didn't specify an image file when I started qemu
[05:25:42] <cradek> maybe something will turn up at workshop
[05:25:52] <cradek> oh hell, no hard disk?
[05:25:57] <jmk_cf> right
[05:26:01] <cradek> argh
[05:26:21] <jmk_cf> it just got to "starting up the partitioner", this should be interesting
[05:26:52] <jmk_cf> yep, no disks to partition
[05:27:00] <jmk_cf> * jmk_cf starts over (again)
[05:27:18] <cradek> qemu -hda some-image-file -user-net
[05:27:40] <jmk_cf> and -m 256 -cdrom <iso> -boot d
[05:27:52] <jmk_cf> I got all those right, and forgot the most fundamental thing
[05:27:55] <cradek> ok, right
[05:28:01] <cradek> sucks
[05:29:39] <jmk_cf> your little lathe needs NEMA23 motors, right?
[05:29:50] <jmk_cf> I have some, dunno if they are torquey enough or not
[05:29:53] <jmk_cf> (surplus)
[05:30:19] <cradek> yes I'm pretty sure their mounts are nema23
[05:30:58] <cradek> I like the sherline motors because they're dual shaft
[05:31:21] <jmk_cf> yeah, thats nice
[05:31:23] <cradek> I've wished for that so many times on my mill I'd be really hesitant to not put them on the lathe (that I'd probably want to use manually most of the time)
[05:31:52] <jmk_cf> got two CPUs at 100% now ;-)
[05:32:15] <cradek> yay
[05:32:31] <jmk_cf> remember my unhappy state yesterday, when the box seemed fscked?
[05:32:44] <cradek> yes I saw you figured it all out late
[05:32:59] <jmk_cf> man was I relieved
[05:33:12] <cradek> I bet
[05:33:13] <jmk_cf> ohh, this ain't good....
[05:33:14] <cradek> it's a nice machine
[05:33:23] <jmk_cf> the bdi-2 install uses X
[05:33:28] <cradek> it'll be fine
[05:33:38] <jmk_cf> and the emulated X display is unreadable
[05:33:45] <cradek> oh??
[05:33:46] <jmk_cf> semi-unreadable
[05:33:56] <cradek> usually it just works
[05:34:03] <cradek> maybe the X is too old
[05:34:05] <jmk_cf> widget titles are OK, but the text in the text boxes is no good
[05:34:16] <cradek> strange
[05:34:25] <cradek> sounds like a font problem or something
[05:34:43] <jmk_cf> could be
[05:34:55] <cradek> -std-vga
[05:34:55] <cradek> Simulate a standard VGA card with Bochs VBE extensions (default is
[05:34:55] <cradek> Cirrus Logic GD5446 PCI VGA)
[05:35:02] <jmk_cf> or color depth - I saw somethign in the qemu docs recommendgin that the host have 16 bit color
[05:35:06] <jmk_cf> I think this is 24
[05:35:20] <cradek> oh 24 is bad for some things
[05:35:26] <cradek> I bet you should use 16 or 32
[05:35:36] <jmk_cf> can I change on the fly? or do I have to reboot or restart X?
[05:35:46] <cradek> you'll have to restart X to change color depth
[05:36:05] <jmk_cf> * jmk_cf shuts down both emu's :-(
[05:36:08] <cradek> no
[05:36:16] <cradek> fix it in xorg.conf and start a second X server
[05:37:58] <jmk_cf> easy for you to say
[05:38:08] <cradek> I'll help if it's not too late
[05:38:21] <jmk_cf> the installs were just barely started
[05:38:28] <cradek> ok
[05:38:30] <jmk_cf> I'll fix it in xorg.conf and then restart x
[05:38:45] <jmk_cf> (but help with xorg.conf would still be welcome)
[05:38:49] <cradek> just change DefaultColorDepth near the bottom of /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[05:39:42] <jmk_cf> wellllll
[05:39:47] <jmk_cf> looks like I already did that
[05:40:03] <jmk_cf> Section "Screen"
[05:40:03] <jmk_cf> Identifier"Default Screen"
[05:40:03] <jmk_cf> Device"Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA 2164W [Millennium II]"
[05:40:03] <jmk_cf> Monitor"Generic Monitor"
[05:40:03] <jmk_cf> DefaultDepth16
[05:40:04] <jmk_cf> SubSection "Display"
[05:40:23] <cradek> 1$ xdpyinfo|grep "depth of root"
[05:40:24] <cradek> depth of root window: 24 planes
[05:41:01] <jmk_cf> john@emccf:~/farm$ xdpyinfo | grep "depth of root"
[05:41:01] <jmk_cf> depth of root window: 16 planes
[05:41:13] <jmk_cf> the good news is I don't have to change it
[05:41:13] <cradek> hmm, guess that's not the problem
[05:41:22] <cradek> the bad news is you killed your installs already?
[05:41:25] <jmk_cf> the bad news is I have no idea why the BDI screen is funky
[05:41:44] <cradek> are there any options at the initial bdi install screen?
[05:41:53] <cradek> iirc you can install rh62 in text mode
[05:42:04] <cradek> you type "text" or something like that at the lilo prompt
[05:42:10] <jmk_cf> yeah
[05:42:21] <jmk_cf> although that may simply defer the problem
[05:42:27] <cradek> but even if X never works, you're ok right?
[05:42:45] <jmk_cf> i'll be really disapointed if there is no X
[05:42:53] <jmk_cf> especially on the ubuntu one
[05:43:04] <cradek> I'm sure it'll work
[05:43:20] <cradek> rh62 will probably work too - maybe you'll have to dink a little
[05:43:38] <cradek> I bet rh62 entirely predates qemu
[05:43:56] <jmk_cf> I hope it works (or can be made to work)
[05:44:06] <jmk_cf> probably does
[05:44:16] <cradek> if my ubuntu install ever gets done installing its malayalam and gujarati fonts, I'll let you know
[05:44:31] <jmk_cf> is it _still_ going?
[05:44:46] <cradek> it had stopped for a full 24 hours asking me what video mode I wanted in X
[05:44:55] <jmk_cf> oh, that
[05:45:09] <jmk_cf> thats damned annoying, it should ask all questions up front
[05:45:32] <cradek> yep, but I see why it can't, it has to do it when it installs the packages (that have to be installed in dependency order)
[05:46:01] <cradek> but for X, if it would pick some resolution I could just change it later if I wanted.
[05:46:57] <cradek> I'm resisting the temptation to set up cvs using this copy of the emc cvs tree
[05:47:13] <jmk_cf> a local repository?
[05:47:21] <cradek> no, I'd share it
[05:47:46] <cradek> I'm pretty sure I could host our cvs.
[05:47:59] <cradek> any old dsl like I have (and jepler has) is more reliable than sf.
[05:48:04] <jmk_cf> bdi-2 is has already formatted the disk and is installing packages
[05:48:24] <jmk_cf> ubunutu is still asking me what keyboard I have
[05:48:56] <cradek> yep no software ever gets faster over the years, does it
[05:50:24] <cradek> speaking of that, I'm installing ttf-tamil-fonts now, in case I ever learn to read tamil
[05:50:30] <cradek> oh, now telugu
[05:50:45] <cradek> I've never heard of these languages
[05:51:09] <cradek> (to be fair, I think it's cool when I see all the web pages displayed right, even though they're in another language)
[05:51:17] <jmk_cf> ubuntu is very proud of their excellent i18n
[05:51:31] <cradek> yes they're sure serious about it
[05:51:47] <jmk_cf> but it really slows down the install
[05:52:15] <cradek> you wouldn't mind if you only spoke telugu
[05:52:31] <cradek> we're spoiled because we speak 7-bit ascii, er, english
[05:52:38] <jmk_cf> heh
[05:53:05] <jmk_cf> I'm gonna miss ascii
[05:53:18] <jmk_cf> "just say no to unicode"
[05:54:10] <cradek> I'm partial to iso-8859, it gives you latin languages while still using one byte per character
[05:54:24] <cradek> and a few nice symbols
[05:54:56] <jmk_cf> I just don't want to have to think about "wchar"
[05:55:08] <cradek> yep, it's pretty nasty
[05:55:19] <cradek> that's why 8859 is still nice.
[05:55:40] <jmk_cf> this is one busy PC
[05:56:20] <jmk_cf> 2 cpus both solidly at 100%, 433M of ram in use, and 100KB/s network traffic (I'm downloading two more isos)
[05:56:38] <cradek> sounds like a good test
[05:57:04] <jmk_cf> I ran memtest86 all night and day too...
[05:57:43] <cradek> but that's only one cpu
[05:57:48] <jmk_cf> right
[05:58:25] <jmk_cf> this is excersizing everything, NIC, disks, etc
[06:00:23] <jmk_cf> I'm really glad I was able to get that extra 256M of ram
[06:00:39] <cradek> it will surely come in handy
[06:00:51] <jmk_cf> speaking of "getting stuff", I now have a total of 11x18G drives and 4x9G ones
[06:01:12] <cradek> wow
[06:01:12] <jmk_cf> there are 2 18's in this box and I'm gonna keep at least 2 spares...
[06:01:27] <cradek> are they the plugin type or the normal scsi type?
[06:01:33] <jmk_cf> I htink its 11, maybe 10
[06:01:38] <jmk_cf> plugins, with the carriers
[06:01:46] <cradek> cool
[06:02:47] <jmk_cf> bdi-20 is halfway thru with installing packages, ubuntu is still detecting hardware, hasn't even started the partitioner yet
[06:03:11] <jmk_cf> actually, more like 1/3 of the way thru
[06:03:14] <jmk_cf> but still.....
[06:03:38] <cradek> huh, wonder why it's so slow
[06:03:52] <jmk_cf> dunno, bloatware?
[06:03:58] <cradek> hope it runs acceptably once it's installed
[06:04:02] <jmk_cf> me too
[06:04:06] <cradek> the debian install does seem to take a LONG time
[06:04:14] <jmk_cf> tell me about it
[06:04:26] <jmk_cf> the install on the host box seemed to take forever
[06:04:31] <cradek> I bet I know what it is: bz2
[06:04:54] <cradek> notice how the install is only one CD? :-)
[06:05:00] <jmk_cf> yeah
[06:05:38] <jmk_cf> the TNG install is gonna be interesting - it requires you to swap CDs half-way thru
[06:06:53] <cradek> no problem, you have to use the "console" to switch disks
[06:06:55] <jmk_cf> network stats for this box: received 3.5GB today ;-)
[06:07:23] <jmk_cf> (I scp'ed some isos over from my other box, then d/l'ed another one, and am doing two more now)
[06:07:28] <cradek> qemu ... -monitor stdio
[06:07:36] <cradek> I think
[06:07:53] <jmk_cf> yeah, I read something about that in the docs
[06:08:02] <jmk_cf> I'll read again before I start the TNG install
[06:08:56] <jmk_cf> I have to figure out how I'm actually gonna run the farm
[06:09:16] <jmk_cf> today, all slots are alive and running all the time (but usually in the middle of a "sleep 3600")
[06:09:37] <jmk_cf> I dunno if I should have them all alive, or invoke qemu one or two slots at a time
[06:10:37] <jmk_cf> invoking qemu means that sleeping slots won't consume ram, but it also means lots of cycles wasted booting every time
[06:10:48] <cradek> yeah
[06:10:59] <cradek> you could use the qemu ram snapshot to stop and start them if you have to
[06:11:07] <cradek> maybe
[06:11:08] <cradek> somehow
[06:11:12] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/toolpath.png
[06:11:22] <cradek> I guess toolpath hasn't bitrotted too much - it built and ran easily
[06:11:26] <cradek> I think I told you about this
[06:11:57] <cradek> it loads 3d models (dxf) and generates a contouring path over it (can consider various tool shapes)
[06:11:59] <jmk_cf> maybe, but I think I forgot
[06:12:23] <jmk_cf> nice
[06:12:24] <cradek> also supports rotary axis for milling from several angles
[06:13:13] <cradek> that cylinder isn't in the model - it's a configurable area that's not milled away
[06:15:45] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/toolpath2.png
[06:15:47] <jmk_cf> yay, the ubuntu is finally writing to the disk (partition table)
[06:15:53] <cradek> haha
[06:15:54] <jmk_cf> the 2.20 is 3/4 done
[06:16:14] <cradek> wow, that's a shocking difference (but what I've also noticed on real hardware)
[06:16:23] <cradek> and freebsd is much faster than redhat
[06:16:43] <jmk_cf> have you seen OSzoo?
[06:16:49] <cradek> no
[06:16:58] <jmk_cf> they have pre-installed qemu images for about 20 free OS's
[06:17:13] <jmk_cf> including a couple bsd's and other non-linux
[06:17:39] <cradek> interesting
[06:18:03] <jmk_cf> http://free.oszoo.org/
[06:18:31] <jmk_cf> the download page has the list
[06:18:38] <jmk_cf> free, net, and open bsd
[06:18:42] <jmk_cf> open solaris
[06:18:46] <jmk_cf> minix
[06:18:51] <jmk_cf> plan9
[06:19:05] <jmk_cf> reactOS (whatever that is)
[06:19:42] <jmk_cf> as well as mainstream stuff, debian, ubuntu, mandrake, etc
[06:20:20] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/ubuntu-qemu.png
[06:20:47] <jmk_cf> yay!
[06:21:59] <cradek> aside from requiring patience, it worked with no problems at all
[06:22:25] <jmk_cf> ubuntu is just beginning to install the base system, 2.20 is done with all packages
[06:23:17] <cradek> any bets which one will have a working X first?
[06:24:13] <jmk_cf> well, it tried
[06:24:25] <jmk_cf> it probed the card, says its 1024x768x16bit
[06:24:54] <jmk_cf> started X, but the dialog where you click to say "I can read this" had fscked text in it (as before)
[06:25:17] <jmk_cf> now I have a choice of "go back and modify the X config" or "quit"
[06:25:30] <jmk_cf> I'd like to choose "continue without X for now"
[06:26:05] <cradek> hmm
[06:27:35] <jmk_cf> I wonder if "quit" will actually abort the install, or just abort X?
[06:28:38] <cradek> sorry, I don't remember
[06:28:44] <jmk_cf> I can also go back and the next time it starts X I can click on the button that says "I can read this" even tho I can't
[06:29:00] <cradek> (I installed a lot of rh62 machines but it was a while ago)
[06:30:14] <jmk_cf> I think I'll tell it I can read the display, and see what happens
[06:30:30] <jmk_cf> I should be able to get to a tty and edit the startup to not start X if needed
[06:32:19] <jmk_cf> great, now it seems hung
[06:32:29] <jmk_cf> its back in a ncurses screen, but ignoring input
[06:36:52] <jmk_cf> you still there?
[06:37:09] <cradek> yep
[06:37:37] <jmk_cf> it boots, gives a login prompt, but after a few seconds, proceeds to start X and wait for a graphical login
[06:37:56] <jmk_cf> but the mouse pointer is a square black box, and much (not all) of the text us fscked up
[06:38:21] <jmk_cf> gotta figure out how to get a text mode console
[06:38:28] <cradek> you can probably fix the mouse pointer with Option "sw_cursor"
[06:38:47] <cradek> no immediate guesses about the font problem
[06:39:10] <cradek> you can get to text mode by grabbing the keyboard (click the mouse) then ctrl-alt-F1
[06:40:04] <jmk_cf> good
[06:40:11] <jmk_cf> (waiting for it to boot)
[06:40:48] <jmk_cf> uh, nope
[06:41:01] <jmk_cf> that gets me a host computer text mode console
[06:41:02] <cradek> which nope?
[06:41:09] <cradek> oh, heck
[06:41:18] <jmk_cf> clicking in the qemu window, then ctrl-alt-f1, no joy
[06:41:24] <cradek> well reboot again and tell it runlevel 3
[06:41:45] <jmk_cf> and how do I do that? I have to edit a file, and I need text mode to do it
[06:42:00] <cradek> no, just reboot, at the lilo prompt type linux 3
[06:42:04] <jmk_cf> oh
[06:42:10] <jmk_cf> * jmk_cf is learning new things
[06:42:34] <cradek> you're learning OLD things
[06:42:57] <jmk_cf> I remember (I think) what line in which file to change to make it use rl 3 every time
[06:43:04] <jmk_cf> but didn;t know you could do it from lilo
[06:43:08] <cradek> inittab
[06:43:20] <jmk_cf> right
[06:43:21] <cradek> it doesn't change the default, it just boots to a different runlevel
[06:43:47] <jmk_cf> right, I understand
[06:43:55] <jmk_cf> lilo is a one time thing
[06:44:01] <jmk_cf> inittab changes make it stick
[06:44:10] <cradek> right
[06:44:36] <cradek> hmm, there are freebsd packages that set up chrooted cvs pserver
[06:45:23] <jmk_cf> qemu should have a "--title" option that sets the window title
[06:45:33] <cradek> SMOP
[06:45:38] <jmk_cf> so when you have multiples running you kno which is which
[06:47:54] <jmk_cf> ok, inittab changed to rl 3
[06:48:20] <jmk_cf> where do I put that Option "sw_cursor"?
[06:48:51] <cradek> /etc/X11/XF86Config
[06:48:53] <jmk_cf> somewhere in XF86Config I think
[06:48:57] <jmk_cf> heh
[06:49:00] <cradek> in Section "Device" I think
[06:49:50] <cradek> hmm, it may depend on your "graphics card"
[06:50:01] <cradek> which Driver is it using?
[06:50:36] <jmk_cf> I'm not very familiar with the format of this file
[06:50:51] <jmk_cf> is the driver in the device section, the screen section, or somewhere else
[06:51:08] <cradek> good question
[06:51:57] <jmk_cf> there are two device sections, "Generic VGA" and "My Video Card"
[06:52:32] <cradek> maybe you should look at the log...?
[06:52:42] <cradek> I can't make heads or tails of this file, it has many similar sections
[06:52:42] <jmk_cf> the screen section invokes the My Video Card device
[06:52:47] <cradek> seems like one is chosen at runtime
[06:53:36] <cradek> (--) SVGA: RIVA TNT: Using hardware cursor
[06:53:36] <jmk_cf> where is the log usually located?
[06:53:43] <cradek> /var/log
[06:53:52] <cradek> might be xdm-something or XF86something
[06:54:02] <cradek> or gdm?
[06:54:27] <jmk_cf> none of the above
[06:54:46] <cradek> oh is this some kde abomination?
[06:54:51] <cradek> argh
[06:55:02] <cradek> nfc where it logs
[06:55:26] <cradek> the machine I have is a normal redhat 6.2
[06:55:30] <jmk_cf> I knew this stuff at one point
[06:56:04] <jmk_cf> I think the X messages just went to the screen
[06:56:12] <jmk_cf> and I did "startx >log"
[06:56:13] <cradek> X -probeonly -verbose >log 2>&1
[06:57:59] <jmk_cf> yeah, its using hardware cursro
[06:58:13] <jmk_cf> device ID "My Video Card"
[06:58:19] <cradek> qemu says it is cirrus logic GD5446 PCI VGA
[06:58:34] <cradek> XFree86 3.3.6 has a clgd5446 driver
[06:58:59] <jmk_cf> this is 3.3.5 (but probably still has the driver)
[06:59:18] <jmk_cf> it does
[06:59:32] <jmk_cf> so, how do I tell it to use that driver?
[06:59:44] <cradek> Option "sw_cursor" (542x/3x/46/6x)
[06:59:44] <cradek> This disables use of the hardware cursor provided by the chip.
[07:00:14] <cradek> it should probe - do you know it is using the wrong one?
[07:00:38] <jmk_cf> the log says the device is My Video Card
[07:00:55] <jmk_cf> it doesn't say anything about what driver its using (or I didn't look close enough)
[07:01:08] <cradek> (--) SVGA: chipset: RIVA TNT
[07:01:26] <cradek> does it have something like that?
[07:01:56] <jmk_cf> PCI: Cirrus Logic GD5446 rev 0
[07:02:08] <cradek> cool
[07:02:11] <alex_joni> morning guys
[07:02:12] <jmk_cf> chipset cldg5446
[07:02:23] <jmk_cf> videoram 2048K
[07:02:25] <jmk_cf> hi alecx
[07:02:27] <jmk_cf> alex
[07:02:41] <cradek> ack
[07:02:52] <jmk_cf> ack?
[07:02:55] <cradek> that means I should be asleep!
[07:03:02] <jmk_cf> me too
[07:03:18] <jmk_cf> but neigher of us is allowed to sleep until my X is working
[07:03:38] <cradek> it's using 16 bit color right?
[07:03:52] <jmk_cf> yes
[07:03:57] <cradek> does it detect 2MB of ram?
[07:03:57] <alex_joni> sorry guys, I'm after 5 hours of sleep ;)
[07:03:59] <jmk_cf> and 1024x768
[07:04:03] <alex_joni> can't see the monitor right
[07:04:03] <jmk_cf> yes
[07:04:10] <alex_joni> going back ;)
[07:04:19] <jmk_cf> goodnight alex
[07:04:29] <alex_joni> you should leave soon too
[07:04:44] <jmk_cf> do I just stick the Option sw_cursor right in the Device section?
[07:05:23] <cradek> I think so
[07:05:49] <jmk_cf> Config Error: Option sw_cursor
[07:05:58] <cradek> there are also options no_bitblt no_imageblt no_mmio that might help
[07:06:02] <cradek> Option "sw_cursor"
[07:06:10] <jmk_cf> duh
[07:07:47] <cradek> Corrupted text in terminal window.
[07:07:47] <cradek> This has been reported on non-standard video implementations.
[07:07:47] <cradek> Use the "no_bitblt" option.
[07:08:07] <jmk_cf> to test I just drop the -probeonly option from the cmd line, right?
[07:08:26] <cradek> that'll only give you a blank screen
[07:08:29] <cradek> try startx
[07:08:47] <jmk_cf> can I still pass -verbose?
[07:08:53] <cradek> I think so
[07:09:50] <jmk_cf> cursor seems better
[07:09:58] <jmk_cf> no dialogs or widgets yet....
[07:10:29] <cradek> we're assuming it's a video driver problem when it could be a kde problem?
[07:10:43] <cradek> as in "kde's anti-aliased fonts are screwed up"
[07:10:54] <jmk_cf> no, its fine now
[07:11:00] <cradek> slick
[07:11:06] <cradek> just with sw_cursor?
[07:11:14] <jmk_cf> I put in all of those options
[07:11:18] <cradek> haha
[07:11:39] <cradek> here, beat it with this stick
[07:11:41] <jmk_cf> I'll try commenting them out one at a time and see what happens
[07:11:55] <cradek> no_bitblt might be the keeper according to the source
[07:13:01] <jmk_cf> and sw_cursor, right?
[07:13:09] <cradek> probably
[07:13:17] <cradek> not sure if they might be the same problem
[07:13:51] <jmk_cf> commented out no_imageblt and no_mmio, testing
[07:14:12] <jmk_cf> very slow startup
[07:14:59] <cradek> when I think about qemu being software that pretends it's a computer, I'm impressed by the speed
[07:16:03] <jmk_cf> slow but workable KDE
[07:16:11] <cradek> yay
[07:16:15] <jmk_cf> now I'll comment out sw_cursor
[07:17:11] <jmk_cf> got the black box
[07:19:31] <cradek> is today the day the shut down the internet for cleaning?
[07:19:33] <jmk_cf> I'm assuming that sw_cursor is _not_ what fixed the text problem, so I'm not gonna bother commenting it out to test
[07:19:50] <jmk_cf> something else besides SF is busted?
[07:20:13] <cradek> nah, just an old 4/1 joke
[07:20:25] <jmk_cf> oh
[07:26:21] <jmk_cf> well, looks like BDI-2.20b works just fine in qemu
[07:26:35] <cradek> cool, I bet the rest will be easier.
[07:26:55] <jmk_cf> ubuntu is 34% of the way thru the base system install, its gonna be hours and hours before its done
[07:27:36] <jmk_cf> time for bed
[07:27:48] <cradek> I bet bdi4 will be the same (it's similar debian stuff)
[07:28:02] <cradek> so you might have a lot of hours of installing left.
[07:28:18] <jmk_cf> yep
[07:28:19] <cradek> yep, talk to you later this weekend sometime
[07:28:27] <jmk_cf> probably be installing all weekend
[07:29:02] <jmk_cf> goodnight
[07:29:09] <cradek> g'night
[08:15:25] <alex_joni> hello
[08:15:28] <alex_joni> still around_
[08:15:31] <alex_joni> ?
[13:38:26] <jepler> when I installed ubuntu in qemu it was hours and hours
[13:38:30] <jepler> same for bdi
[14:16:54] <alex_joni> hello
[14:16:57] <alex_joni> morning jeff
[14:34:09] <jepler> hi alex
[15:45:11] <rayh> logger_devel, bookmark
[15:45:11] <rayh> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emcdevel/2006-04-01#T15-45-11
[17:30:09] <alex_joni> morning ray
[17:34:28] <rayh> Hi alex. Sorry I'm slow today.
[17:34:38] <alex_joni> no problem, me too :)
[17:34:41] <rayh> Off working on halconfig.
[17:34:49] <alex_joni> just woke up, and it's 20:30
[17:34:55] <rayh> I've got tabs working.
[17:35:07] <rayh> It looks pretty good.
[17:35:23] <alex_joni> nice
[17:35:32] <rayh> I really wish sf cvs was working.
[17:35:49] <alex_joni> seems svn is down too, same machine?
[17:36:03] <rayh> svn?
[17:36:28] <alex_joni> their new versioning system that's running since january
[17:36:36] <rayh> Ah.
[17:37:02] <rayh> Do you think we need to switch to that and away from cvs?
[17:37:31] <alex_joni> no, it offers some limited functionality more than cvs
[17:37:46] <alex_joni> but the switching is hard to do (for the users)
[17:37:56] <rayh> Good. I didn't want to have to stumble through a new software.
[17:38:01] <alex_joni> most our CVS users can't use CVS fully, including me
[17:38:23] <alex_joni> so trying something completely new will set us back for a while (that's why we didn't bring it up)
[17:38:25] <rayh> Uh yea you're talking to one right now.
[17:38:35] <alex_joni> I think we all know that
[17:38:52] <rayh> I wonder about moving cvs to dreamhost?
[17:39:39] <alex_joni> rayh: I think we can move cvs to somewhere else, then set up a cron job to commit changes to SF too
[17:40:03] <rayh> Okay. That would work for me.
[17:40:12] <alex_joni> but I would want to talk that through with people who know more :)
[17:40:23] <rayh> I could probably find money to buy deamhost cvs service.
[17:40:59] <alex_joni> there are free alternatives out there I think
[17:42:19] <rayh> I'm guessing, perhaps a bit paranoid, that sf's parent company is applying downtime as a tool to get support or to move some projects to their commercial service.
[17:43:13] <alex_joni> rayh: that would be terrible, but it's not excluded
[17:43:17] <rayh> Just the electricity to host 112k projects and 750k + users has to be significant.
[17:43:33] <alex_joni> rayh: not that significant
[17:43:41] <alex_joni> that's only a few racks
[17:44:07] <alex_joni> 750k users is not THAT much, probably they have something like 20-30 servers
[17:44:08] <rayh> It's significant by my meager cashflow.
[17:44:19] <rayh> Might be.
[17:44:36] <alex_joni> rayh: I know of a hosting company in germany, they have the most % of the market share in europe
[17:44:44] <alex_joni> 1&1 I think they are called
[17:44:56] <rayh> I really don't want us to get caught on a "private" server.
[17:45:06] <alex_joni> those people have something like 1.5 Million kWh / month electricity consumption
[17:45:17] <alex_joni> that is a LOT
[17:45:32] <rayh> A small hydro plant or nuke?
[17:45:58] <alex_joni> heh, regular power
[17:46:08] <alex_joni> but they need to announce when doing test going offline
[17:46:24] <alex_joni> because the extra power available, when they are offline, brings the whole county down :D
[17:46:32] <rayh> I did a bit of elec work for a coal fired plant here with 6 10M generators and 2 20M.
[17:47:06] <alex_joni> yeah, they have a huge generator too
[17:47:13] <alex_joni> about 6000l/hour diesel :D
[17:47:20] <alex_joni> consumption I mean
[17:47:42] <rayh> Pay that bill and 1.5 eu per l
[17:48:17] <alex_joni> yeah, or even supply that much diesel
[17:49:28] <rayh> does 1&1 host free projects?
[17:51:23] <alex_joni> don't think so
[17:51:37] <alex_joni> but they are pretty cheap, anyways that was just a comparison to SF
[17:52:02] <rayh> Makes the sf bunch seem small.
[17:52:24] <alex_joni> they have 30000 servers (I just read)
[17:52:24] <rayh> brb start cooking the potatos.
[17:52:31] <alex_joni> how do you cook them?
[17:53:48] <alex_joni> Customers:5.08 million customers on paid services
[17:53:55] <alex_joni> Domains:5.3 million domain names are registered and handled by 1&1
[17:54:04] <alex_joni> Connectivity:25,000 MBit external Carrier Class Connectivity
[17:54:04] <alex_joni> Our Own Backbone
[17:54:15] <alex_joni> that really makes SF look small :D
[17:55:16] <rayh> boiled and mashed today with sausage gravy.
[17:56:11] <rayh> Boy I guess that makes most of the server farms I've seen seem tiny.
[17:56:18] <rayh> microscopic.
[17:58:34] <alex_joni> rayh: told you they are big :)
[17:58:54] <alex_joni> anyways, had some nice potatos today, boiled till they are mashy, but not mashed
[17:59:06] <alex_joni> with some oil & spring onions
[17:59:15] <alex_joni> mixed together, those are great (even when cold)
[17:59:52] <rayh> Oh yea. I'm drooling.
[18:04:06] <rayh> Do you know who built stepper_inch_net.hal and it's ini?
[18:04:12] <rayh> Just tried it and it fails.
[18:05:36] <rayh> I suspect #loadrt motmod (not loaded by loadrt, no args saved)
[18:11:31] <rayh> Yep that's it.
[18:14:45] <alex_joni> never seen stepper_inch_net.hal
[18:14:50] <alex_joni> bet it's yours ;)
[18:26:23] <rayh> Oh Maybe it is mine.
[18:26:35] <rayh> Darn I should keep my mouth shut.
[18:37:25] <alex_joni> ;-)
[18:37:37] <alex_joni> rayh: you're under friends here, so it won't matter :)
[18:37:41] <rayh> Well I've got the ini file down to 90 lines.
[18:38:04] <alex_joni> oh, that's a change ;)
[18:38:06] <rayh> And the net list seems to work great.
[18:38:40] <rayh> I'll need to add some stuff to halconfig in order to handle stuff like thread timing and such.
[18:39:58] <rayh> does iocontrol use the ini's emcio cycle_time?
[18:40:26] <rayh> I'm thinking so because it's a user space thing.
[18:41:31] <alex_joni> yes, I think so
[18:41:44] <alex_joni> and halui probably will use the same one
[18:42:07] <alex_joni> btu here's my thinking: if we want to make the ini's short, we should put the defaults into the code (some defaults are already there)
[18:42:35] <alex_joni> and take the stuff out of the ini, let users who want to change the cycle time (not sure there are any) add the stuff back
[18:42:36] <rayh> Right. What I did was build the netlist from halcmd save.
[18:43:02] <rayh> and then removed all of the variables that were now hard coded into .hal.
[18:43:23] <rayh> Now I'm working on ways to get access in halconfig for all of those.
[18:43:59] <rayh> I can see halui using the same loop timing.
[19:11:43] <jmk_cf> morning guys
[19:11:48] <alex_joni> hi jmk
[19:11:52] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is happy ;)
[19:11:59] <jmk_cf> why?
[19:12:01] <alex_joni> just added another thing to linuxcnc.org :D
[19:12:18] <jmk_cf> speaking of things on linuxcnc.org, it sure is hard to find stuff
[19:12:42] <alex_joni> what stuff?
[19:13:46] <jmk_cf> well...for some reason I got the old linuxcnc homepage for a while last night (in browser cache maybe)
[19:13:55] <alex_joni> probably DNS cache
[19:14:00] <jmk_cf> all of the links on it were busted
[19:14:05] <jmk_cf> (as expected I guess)
[19:14:09] <alex_joni> right
[19:14:16] <jmk_cf> but trying to find the same data on the new site wasn't easy
[19:14:35] <jmk_cf> its down 2 or 3 levels instead of directly accessible
[19:14:46] <jmk_cf> and the BDI page seems to be gone completely
[19:15:23] <alex_joni> the BDI page was gone for a month or so
[19:15:30] <alex_joni> paul took it down on the old server aswell
[19:15:39] <alex_joni> using his ftp access
[19:15:47] <alex_joni> he set up a forwarding to his new home
[19:16:05] <jmk_cf> I guess thats his right...
[19:16:16] <jmk_cf> I was looking for isos
[19:16:46] <alex_joni> he has some mirrors on his new home
[19:17:48] <jmk_cf> I got what I needed from wildrice and your mirror
[19:17:54] <alex_joni> jmk_cf: seriously now, I spend quite a time on this new page stuff, gotta let me know what you don't like
[19:17:57] <alex_joni> so I can make it better
[19:17:58] <alex_joni> ;)
[19:19:47] <jmk_cf> it just seems harder to navigate
[19:20:05] <jmk_cf> its hard to describe in detail
[19:20:07] <alex_joni> depends on what you expect
[19:20:15] <alex_joni> you might be used to some things..
[19:20:21] <jmk_cf> thats probably the problem - I expect the old site
[19:20:25] <alex_joni> I think it's a bit clearer structured for the new users
[19:23:18] <jmk_cf> I wonder how google will do with it?
[19:24:33] <alex_joni> they will eventually update links
[19:24:34] <jmk_cf> woot! finally (after three tries) I got a good download of BDI-Live_rc46
[19:24:40] <alex_joni> but it takes a month or two
[19:25:09] <jmk_cf> will google be able to link deep into the site,or does the CMS make that complicated?
[19:25:31] <jmk_cf> whats with all the copies of you on the other channel?
[19:25:48] <alex_joni> it's an interface out of www.linuxcnc.org
[19:25:52] <alex_joni> setting it properly up now
[19:26:13] <alex_joni> I mean client out of the page
[19:26:30] <alex_joni> for users that don't have IRC clients installed, or don't know how to use them
[19:27:06] <alex_joni447> hello ;)
[19:27:07] <jmk_cf> so you can IRC with just a web browser?
[19:27:15] <alex_joni447> yes, but you need java
[19:27:22] <jmk_cf> hmm
[19:27:29] <jmk_cf> I wonder if my work computer has java
[19:27:41] <jmk_cf> if I can talk on IRC during the day, I'm doomed ;-)
[19:28:14] <alex_joni447> try it out : http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_mospjirc&Itemid=8&lang=en
[19:29:19] <jmk_cf> it wants me to download a plugin
[19:29:21] <alex_joni> it should look like this: http://www.robcon.ro/emc/irc.linuxcnc.org.jpg
[19:29:22] <jmk_cf> fsck that
[19:29:41] <alex_joni> I only get a message about a certificate
[19:29:54] <alex_joni> but probably you don't have java on your pc :)
[19:30:03] <jmk_cf> I hope not ;-)
[19:30:14] <jmk_cf> I'll try it from work some day
[19:30:22] <alex_joni> it's under Contact Us
[19:30:22] <jmk_cf> from here I'll use a real IRC client
[19:30:34] <alex_joni> jmk_cf: I know YOU will use a real IRC client, so will I
[19:30:45] <alex_joni> but I thought this might help new users, who just want to contact us
[19:31:20] <jmk_cf> 18521 john 25 0 281m 273m 2404 R 97.0 36.1 355:31.53 qemu
[19:31:27] <alex_joni> can you com to board for a bit?
[19:31:30] <alex_joni> come even
[19:39:46] <alex_joni> rayh: look at http://www.robcon.ro/emc/irc.linuxcnc.org.jpg
[19:40:00] <alex_joni> 143kB it will load eventually :(
[19:41:00] <rayh> Got the first couple lines.
[19:41:32] <alex_joni447> * alex_joni447 likes it :)
[19:46:19] <rayh> Interesting. You could see the current IRC right from linuxncnc.
[19:46:34] <alex_joni447> rayh: and also talk, like I am doing now
[19:46:53] <alex_joni447> rayh: the only downside is the need of java
[19:46:59] <rayh> Yes. That would be a very nice addition to the site.
[19:47:04] <alex_joni447> it's already there
[19:47:19] <alex_joni447> as you can see, I am using it :)
[19:47:19] <rayh> java on the home machine or on the server?
[19:47:25] <alex_joni447> on the home machine
[19:47:45] <cradek> what's the url?
[19:47:48] <rayh> Could joomla test for that and put up an error message.
[19:48:00] <rayh> if it doesn't find what it needs on the home machine.
[19:48:42] <alex_joni447> the browser gives you the proper error if you don't have what it needs
[19:49:25] <rayh> 'Ah okay. I say we put it in then.
[19:49:34] <rayh> er you put it in then.
[19:49:59] <alex_joni447> rayh: I already did :)
[19:50:09] <alex_joni447> you can get to it from the Contact Us page
[19:50:22] <rayh> Oh Okay.
[19:50:27] <alex_joni447> I mean, I already added because I needed to test
[19:50:35] <alex_joni447> would have removed it if it were bad
[19:51:36] <cradek> ubuntu firefox won't automatically install java
[19:52:22] <alex_joni447> cradek: too bad, guess I need to keep my eyes open for one that doesn't use java
[19:52:29] <alex_joni447> how about flash ? :D
[19:52:52] <rayh> manual install it says.
[19:54:09] <cradek> flash would probably be fine (but I don't know if flash can make network connections or not)
[19:56:48] <alex_joni447> seems there is some Flash IRC client, but it needs a gateway to work
[19:56:50] <alex_joni447> http://www.wdmedia.org/WFIC/index-en.html
[20:05:08] <rayh> You know I'm pretty certain that the ubuntu users will not need the link to IRC from the web site.
[20:05:25] <alex_joni> rayh: I bet so too
[20:05:27] <cradek> well that's true
[20:05:36] <cradek> freenode is on the default list of irc networks
[20:05:37] <alex_joni> they do have an IRC client in ubuntu
[20:05:37] <jmkasunich> they'll just use xchat
[20:05:41] <cradek> it may even be *the* default
[20:06:15] <alex_joni> cradek: on ubuntu?
[20:06:16] <skunkworks> I used xchat. you guys have helped me through it on the actual machine.
[20:06:18] <jmkasunich> I find the linuxcnc IRC interesting for cases like me at work, or on the road, where all I have access to is somebody elses PC
[20:06:36] <skunkworks> On ubuntu
[20:06:37] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: hope it will be of some use
[20:06:41] <cradek> jmkasunich: that's what putty is for (ssh to a real computer)
[20:07:08] <jmkasunich> 1) my computers are firewalled to keep outsiders from getting into them
[20:07:17] <jmkasunich> 2) work is firewalled to keep me from getting out
[20:07:22] <cradek> 1) opening ssh is relatively safe
[20:07:23] <alex_joni> you need a firewall with ssh
[20:07:25] <alex_joni> :)
[20:07:25] <cradek> 2) ick
[20:07:32] <jmkasunich> 3) I may be forbidden from sticking putty on the work box
[20:07:43] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: you don't need to stick it
[20:07:48] <cradek> 3) you can run it right off the putty web site (no install needed)
[20:07:50] <alex_joni> I often run it out of the browser
[20:08:02] <jmkasunich> obviously I have lots to learn
[20:08:04] <cradek> I've done that a lot of times on public PCs
[20:08:14] <cradek> putty is really nice if you're stuck with windows
[20:08:16] <alex_joni> google & search putty & feeling lucky
[20:08:23] <jmkasunich> 4) I don't have a static IP
[20:08:33] <jmkasunich> it doesn't change often (if ever) but...
[20:08:36] <alex_joni> at home? you can use dyndns
[20:08:37] <cradek> does it change often? I don't have one either, but it stays the same for years
[20:09:12] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich 's head spins
[20:09:32] <jmkasunich> I just want to write code, not become a sysop
[20:09:35] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: don't worry ;)
[20:09:54] <alex_joni> let others bother :D
[20:09:58] <alex_joni> * alex_joni loves iptables
[20:10:24] <alex_joni> I just set up a fake ftp server with DNAT
[20:10:37] <jmkasunich> well, opening a hole in my NAT firewall for ssh, and setting up keys or whatever is needed to let me log in from elsewhere, that is sysop stuff that only I can do
[20:10:55] <alex_joni> depends on the NAT
[20:11:12] <alex_joni> at home I have one of those wireless & ethernet firewall & router
[20:11:13] <jmkasunich> besides, I turn my computer off when I'm not home (except on weekends)
[20:11:32] <alex_joni> with http interface, makes it easy for the basic user to adapt
[20:11:37] <cradek> does your isp give you a shell account?
[20:11:47] <cradek> there's also shell.sf.net which you can use anytime (no sysoping required)
[20:11:48] <jmkasunich> IRC on the linuxcnc website will let me talk on the channel without my home computer even being on
[20:11:53] <jmkasunich> no shell account
[20:12:09] <cradek> checking to see if I can irc from shell.sf.net...
[20:12:21] <jmkasunich> I don't know why we're even having this discussion
[20:12:31] <alex_joni> lol, because we digress as always
[20:12:32] <alex_joni> :D
[20:12:44] <jmkasunich> I pointed out a reason why I might use alex's new IRC, and you guys are trying to convince me I don't have to
[20:12:55] <alex_joni> the main issues is SF's CVS right now :(
[20:12:58] <cradek> hmm
[20:13:00] <jmkasunich> yes
[20:13:01] <alex_joni> not an issue to talk about
[20:13:03] <cradek> yeah
[20:13:06] <alex_joni> but it's there
[20:13:54] <jmkasunich> possibilities:
[20:14:05] <cradek> I looked into setting up a cvs server on my machine, but it's not at all trivial to do it securely
[20:14:09] <jmkasunich> 1) move the entire project to some other hosting site (Gna, etc)
[20:14:24] <jmkasunich> 2) have a backup repository somewhare and figure out how to sync them
[20:14:27] <jmkasunich> 3) ?
[20:14:36] <cradek> 3) move just cvs, not the entire project
[20:14:46] <alex_joni> 2&3) might be a cron job that commits to SF
[20:15:41] <alex_joni> I mean it checks out changes on the new hosting, and checks them in to SF as well
[20:15:45] <alex_joni> to keep them synched
[20:15:46] <jmkasunich> moving cvs (vs. a backup cvs) still leaves us with a single point of failure
[20:16:07] <cradek> you can't fix that with cvs - that's its architecture
[20:16:25] <alex_joni> the best way would be an rsync on the repository
[20:16:34] <alex_joni> but SF doesn't offer that support
[20:17:08] <cradek> I loathe switching, but maybe we should consider subversion, which is more distributed
[20:17:25] <alex_joni> cradek: seems svn is down aswell.. some reported
[20:17:34] <jmkasunich> I can envision a script that does an up from one server, copies all the files (not the CVS dirs) to another checkout tree, and commits on that tree
[20:17:37] <cradek> but I think that doesn't stop all work
[20:17:57] <cradek> jmkasunich: it's not that simple: think add/delete
[20:18:17] <alex_joni> and branching
[20:18:29] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: btw, news update :)
[20:18:35] <alex_joni> there's a v2_0_branch now
[20:18:39] <rayh> I'd rather not learn subversion.
[20:18:43] <alex_joni> and TESTING has been moved to that branch
[20:18:44] <jmkasunich> add/delete could probably be handled, but branching would be too much
[20:18:53] <rayh> I've got more than enough on my plate for the next year.
[20:19:21] <cradek> rayh: I'm the same way, but still I admit it seems to offer important benefits
[20:19:54] <jmkasunich> how is svn more distributed? I thought there was still a central repository?
[20:19:54] <cradek> I just think we need to find cvs hosting that doesn't suck.
[20:20:13] <rayh> I don't doubt but what that's true.
[20:20:17] <cradek> jmkasunich: I'm NO expert, but I think you can pull/push from anyone's repository and sync everything later
[20:20:23] <alex_joni> I never touched svn, but then again I haven't really touched CVS before emc either
[20:20:37] <cradek> * cradek waves his hands
[20:21:03] <alex_joni> cradek: how about that stuff that jepler put up a while ago?
[20:21:26] <cradek> he's copying FROM sf cvs TO his svn
[20:21:35] <cradek> and I've never looked at it
[20:21:59] <alex_joni> ok, so he did it one way ;)
[20:22:05] <alex_joni> maybe the same could be inversed
[20:22:11] <alex_joni> then we move to HIS svn :D
[20:22:32] <cradek> sadly I don't want to learn svn either, even though I'm sure it's better
[20:22:42] <alex_joni> yeah, I can understand why
[20:23:01] <rayh> dreamhost has a ruby setup if there were a ruby irc.
[20:23:41] <jmkasunich> seems there are a lot of source code hosting companies out there
[20:23:42] <alex_joni> btw, I probably will leave for a year or more (got a scholarship), not sure I will be able to keep up with emc then :(
[20:24:40] <rayh> Congrats. Where you going?
[20:24:42] <jmkasunich> $25/month for each 5 users, plus $25/month for each 100Megs
[20:25:19] <alex_joni> rayh: just a bad april joke :)
[20:25:28] <jmkasunich> hmm
[20:25:32] <jmkasunich> versionhost.com
[20:25:52] <jmkasunich> $10/month or $100/year for open source projects, unlimited users
[20:26:06] <rayh> Darn. I had an april fool joke once. Bacterial mennengitis.
[20:27:07] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: 100MB disk space sounds kinda scarse
[20:27:23] <alex_joni> and "optional anonymous access" sounds like additional money
[20:27:35] <cradek> our cvs tree is > 100MB already
[20:29:38] <jmkasunich> I'm sure you can get more space, dunno about cost
[20:31:08] <alex_joni> dreamhost has CVS too
[20:31:17] <alex_joni> so we could setup cvs.linuxcnc.org
[20:31:18] <jmkasunich> seems like lots of places have it
[20:31:46] <cradek> I hear dreamhost doesn't have pserver
[20:32:02] <rayh> I just sent a note asking for details.
[20:32:43] <cradek> if we can find a way to do anoncvs, I think we should immediately start the move.
[20:33:21] <rayh> True. Or if they have levels of developer access like testing v committing.
[20:33:58] <cradek> I think we need true anon (though not necessarily pserver)
[20:34:14] <jmkasunich> dreamhost gives you shell access right?
[20:34:21] <cradek> yes apparently
[20:34:30] <jmkasunich> http://www.mythic-beasts.com/support/topic_cvs.html
[20:34:35] <jmkasunich> read down to vCVS
[20:35:02] <jmkasunich> seems to be sw that lets you host multiple user cvs on a shell acct (including anon)
[20:35:21] <jmkasunich> source is available, so you don't neccessarily need to go with that company
[20:35:39] <jmkasunich> (or I could be confused)
[20:35:54] <jmkasunich> http://www.ex-parrot.com/~chris/software.html#vscvs
[20:35:56] <jmkasunich> thats the sw
[22:21:18] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hmmm. You know, I could do an April Fool's Day joke, but maybe instead we should make this a group effort. Let's all just go to irc.oftc.net channel #oftc, and tell them that freenode has shut down and has repointed its servers to OFTC, and ask if they're going to be adding more facilities to handle the load. 8)
[22:25:04] <lilo> [Global Notice] Okay guys, thanks for the fun, let's let those poor guys on OFTC off the hook. :)
[22:28:08] <jmk_cf> qemu has spent 491 minutes on the ubuntu install (and that is only after the reboot, it spent a load before)
[22:28:35] <lilo> [Global Notice] Okay guys, give the folks on OFTC a rest, it was a good joke, time to go home. :)
[22:28:43] <alex_joni> lol, I followed lilo's prank ;)
[22:29:03] <alex_joni> man that place was flooded :D
[22:29:58] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh-away
[23:46:02] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. On behalf of my self and all 200 or so people who participated in that April Fool's prank on OFTC, please accept our apology. I know that when you're the person pranked, it doesn't seem all that funny. So, apologies and bygones!
[23:46:19] <lilo> [Global Notice] Erm, assuming anyone from OFTC is still here. 8)