#emc-devel | Logs for 2006-03-19

[01:15:59] <jmkasunich> warm at last...
[01:34:39] <cradek> jmkasunich: ok I just did my taxes, I can afford an encoder
[01:35:14] <cradek> got your parts done?
[01:35:26] <jmkasunich> got the outside milling part done
[01:35:53] <jmkasunich> still lathe work, drilling and tapping, engraving the scales and stamping the numbers, etc
[01:36:03] <jmkasunich> it will keep me busy for the rest of the weekend
[01:40:55] <cradek> how many counts per revolution do I want? I can get 50 on up
[01:40:58] <jmkasunich> taxes... and I thought you were away making the shaft coupler... where are your priorities man?
[01:41:12] <cradek> haha
[01:41:24] <cradek> it's too cold in the garage for lathe work - I'll wait until the sun's out
[01:41:45] <cradek> hmm, these I can make on the sherline indoors
[01:41:54] <jmkasunich> I thought you had a sherline? tuck it under your arm and take it inside!
[01:42:08] <cradek> yeah the "big" lathe is in the garage
[01:42:17] <jmkasunich> oh, didn't know you had a big lathe
[01:42:28] <cradek> well it's 6" - big compared to the sherline
[01:42:41] <cradek> it's a bit of a clunker but it works
[01:42:49] <jmkasunich> thats what counts
[01:43:10] <jmkasunich> speaking of counts.... cpr
[01:43:24] <jmkasunich> when US digital says cpr, do they mean cycles or counts?
[01:44:04] <cradek> Resolutions up to 2500 CPR (10,000 PPR)
[01:44:08] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:44:22] <cradek> I still can't find the one you found with 1/8 shaft
[01:44:25] <jmkasunich> the HAL encoder counter can theoritically count at the interrupt rate
[01:44:33] <jmkasunich> that was the S4 I think
[01:44:38] <jmkasunich> it didn't have an index pulse
[01:45:05] <jmkasunich> what is your base period?
[01:45:11] <cradek> let me check
[01:45:52] <cradek> currently 50
[01:46:04] <jmkasunich> so a 20KHz interrupt rate
[01:46:25] <jmkasunich> if the encoder signals were perfect (50/50 duty cycle, exactly 90 degrees between A and B) it could count at 20KHz
[01:46:56] <cradek> so we should count at 2? 5? for it to work well
[01:46:59] <jmkasunich> it can count at 10KHz even with fairly crappy signals
[01:47:30] <jmkasunich> how fast is your Z (max accel, max vel)
[01:47:48] <cradek> vel .3667 acc 20
[01:48:38] <jmkasunich> so zero to max speed in .3667/20 = 18mS, thats good
[01:48:40] <cradek> Z is a lot slower than XY
[01:48:45] <jmkasunich> max speed is 22 ipm
[01:48:47] <cradek> yeah it accels great
[01:48:59] <jmkasunich> assume we're cutting a 10 tpi thread
[01:49:01] <cradek> could probably even be turned up
[01:49:15] <jmkasunich> 22 ipm * 10 tpi = 220 rpm
[01:49:17] <cradek> ok
[01:49:40] <jmkasunich> thats the max speed for a 10 tpi thread
[01:49:46] <jmkasunich> finer threads could go faster
[01:49:50] <cradek> that's pretty slow isn't it
[01:50:19] <jmkasunich> slow for CNC threading, my manual threading is probably about that speed
[01:50:36] <jmkasunich> I dunno how much torque you'll have down there
[01:50:54] <cradek> it's not bad - pretty hard to stop the motor by hand
[01:51:08] <jmkasunich> the spindle motor?
[01:51:10] <cradek> the sherline motor has a nice speed control
[01:51:12] <cradek> yes
[01:51:16] <jmkasunich> ok, thats good
[01:51:36] <jmkasunich> lets say 40 tpi is about the finest thread you'll cut
[01:51:55] <jmkasunich> that would be a max spindle speed of 22ipm * 40 tpi = 880 RPM
[01:52:11] <jmkasunich> = 14.667 RPS, call it 15
[01:52:39] <jmkasunich> if we can count at 10KHz, 10KHz/15 revs/sec = 666 counts/rev
[01:53:20] <jmkasunich> I'd probably get 500 counts/rev
[01:53:51] <jmkasunich> that means the encoder will reliably count up to 10000/500 = 20 revs/sec = 1200 RPM
[01:54:27] <jmkasunich> is 500 (or 512) available?
[01:54:38] <jmkasunich> anything else available in the 500-700 range?
[01:54:53] <cradek> if I got 360, would it hurt performance much? I could have a more useful rpm reading for general low speed milling
[01:55:06] <cradek> nah forget it, I won't be able to leave it hooked up
[01:55:25] <cradek> they have a huge range in 200-1000
[01:55:27] <jmkasunich> if you are using HAL for the RPM reading it can be scaled any way you want anyway
[01:55:56] <jmkasunich> you want the highest you can get that will count reliably at the max speed you expect to thread at
[01:56:05] <cradek> ok
[01:56:21] <cradek> I think I could reduce PERIOD a bit too if I had a little reliability problem
[01:56:31] <cradek> so 500 or 512? doesn't matter?
[01:56:43] <jmkasunich> nope
[01:56:58] <jmkasunich> could use 600 too, that would give you a nice round top speed of 1000 RPM
[01:57:09] <cradek> 500 512 540 720 900
[01:57:18] <cradek> err not 540 (no index)
[01:57:25] <jmkasunich> 720 is too high, that would top out at less than 800 RPM
[01:57:29] <jmkasunich> take 500
[01:57:32] <cradek> ok
[01:58:07] <jmkasunich> reliable counting to at least 1200, probably up to 1800 or so with a few lost counts (for speed indication for example, not for threading)
[01:58:23] <cradek> ok great
[01:58:43] <cradek> http://www.usdigital.com/products/s1s2/
[01:58:49] <cradek> I think I will get the S1
[01:58:57] <cradek> I don't see any problems with it
[01:59:50] <jmkasunich> whats the diff between S1 and S2?
[01:59:54] <jmkasunich> (still reading the page)
[02:00:09] <cradek> not sure, except S2 is bigger and isn't available in as many cpr
[02:00:43] <jmkasunich> pricing is the same
[02:01:03] <jmkasunich> looks like they charge an extra $9 for the index, and $8 for the bearing
[02:01:18] <cradek> oh I didn't see the index charge
[02:01:47] <cradek> oh now I do
[02:02:12] <jmkasunich> S2 covers higher resolutions - thats why its bigger
[02:02:27] <jmkasunich> the lines on the disk can only get so small, then they have to make the disk bigger
[02:02:35] <cradek> right
[02:03:08] <cradek> so I can hook these three lines right to the parport?
[02:03:18] <jmkasunich> looks that way
[02:03:41] <jmkasunich> I have a jogwheel (basically an encoder with a handle) and I hooked it right to the parport, worked fine
[02:04:01] <cradek> that sounds really cool
[02:04:24] <jmkasunich> waitaminnit
[02:04:25] <cradek> I've always wished the mill had dual-shaft motors so I could put cranks on them
[02:04:41] <cradek> ?
[02:04:59] <jmkasunich> you don't want 500cpr, if I understand it correctly that is 2000 counts per rev
[02:05:11] <cradek> oh!
[02:05:14] <jmkasunich> you want 500-600 counts/rev, which is 125-150 CPR
[02:05:40] <cradek> 100, 192, 200
[02:05:42] <cradek> 100?
[02:05:48] <jmkasunich> yeah ;(
[02:06:09] <cradek> good catch, I would have missed it
[02:06:33] <jmkasunich> I was looking at the electrical specs page
[02:07:33] <cradek> argh wtf, I can't order online?
[02:07:49] <jmkasunich> "Resolutions up to 2500 CPR (10,000 PPR)" is what reminded me
[02:08:30] <jmkasunich> I'm a dinosaur, I tend to pick things out online but phone in the order
[02:08:43] <cradek> what is this phone?
[02:08:44] <jmkasunich> still don't trust my credit card on the web
[02:08:56] <cradek> ah, I do that all the time
[02:09:01] <jmkasunich> watsom, come here, I need you!
[02:09:06] <jmkasunich> watson that is
[02:09:13] <cradek> ha
[02:11:25] <jmkasunich> what is the spindle OD?
[02:11:37] <cradek> which part?
[02:11:44] <jmkasunich> under the pulley
[02:11:53] <cradek> hang on
[02:12:37] <skunkworks> are we talking about setting up a spindle encoder? ;)
[02:12:50] <cradek> in the pulley it's .625
[02:13:06] <cradek> for the little length below it, it's a bit bigger
[02:13:25] <cradek> uh 17mm
[02:13:32] <jmkasunich> fsckin mm
[02:13:40] <cradek> = ~ .670 in
[02:13:43] <jmkasunich> .669"
[02:14:02] <jmkasunich> and the pulley OD?
[02:14:19] <cradek> 1.48
[02:14:51] <cradek> skunkworks: yep, I didn't succeed in scamming parts off anyone, so jmk is helping me figure out what to buy
[02:15:24] <jmkasunich> you can get a 2" optical disk with a 0.625 hole in it for $12, and the detector module for $28
[02:15:26] <skunkworks> great. I was hoping. I don't think I have any encoders - lots of resolvers though.
[02:15:40] <jmkasunich> mount the disk to the inderside of the pulley, the detector to the casting
[02:16:00] <cradek> what's the OD and thickness of the disc?
[02:16:26] <cradek> that would be no-contact so I could leave it on all the time
[02:16:34] <jmkasunich> 2" nominal OD
[02:16:42] <jmkasunich> pretty darn thin
[02:17:08] <jmkasunich> 0.007"
[02:17:15] <staggerlytom> exposed glass encoder disk on mill?
[02:17:19] <jmkasunich> plastic
[02:17:29] <cradek> I bet I'd break it
[02:17:31] <jmkasunich> exposed yes, that would be an issue
[02:17:35] <jmkasunich> mylar
[02:17:38] <staggerlytom> oh much better :-)
[02:17:50] <jmkasunich> unbreakable, but scratchable or tearable
[02:18:20] <staggerlytom> some covering and maybe pos air pressure to keep dirt out
[02:18:36] <cradek> actually jepler will break it
[02:18:43] <jmkasunich> just letting my brain run free, the other idea is probably more robust, but less convenient
[02:19:11] <cradek> yeah let's go with plan A even though it's going to be $80
[02:19:34] <jmkasunich> adds up quick
[02:19:38] <cradek> yep
[02:20:03] <jmkasunich> sure it wouldn't be cheaper to program a pic or something so you could use the 1000CPR one I have?
[02:20:49] <jmkasunich> could a pic do quadrature in and quadrature out , with the out a divided version of the in?
[02:21:00] <jmkasunich> duh, of course it could
[02:21:01] <cradek> sure
[02:21:16] <cradek> you generate an interrupt with one line and on the isr read the other one
[02:21:29] <cradek> I've done it before
[02:21:45] <jmkasunich> could that count up into the 100KHz range?
[02:22:11] <staggerlytom> 13Khz http://www.sxlist.com/techref/microchip/qenc.htm
[02:22:12] <cradek> AVR is risc and runs at 16MHz for a few dollars, so yes
[02:22:46] <jmkasunich> quadrature out means easy interface to EMC thru the parport
[02:23:18] <cradek> I'll buy the right one, which saves on both complexity and trouble for you
[02:23:20] <jmkasunich> divide factor could be set by dip switches or something, for high res at low speed
[02:23:38] <jmkasunich> no trouble for me - it would be you or jepler doing the AVR ;-)
[02:23:46] <cradek> you would have to test and ship
[02:24:00] <jmkasunich> oh, that...
[02:24:04] <jmkasunich> no big deal
[02:24:09] <cradek> I need to remember to bring avr stuff to fest
[02:24:18] <jmkasunich> "stuff"?
[02:24:18] <cradek> who knows what we might want to do
[02:24:25] <jmkasunich> dev tools and such?
[02:24:29] <cradek> and some chips
[02:24:37] <cradek> appropriate crystals, etc
[02:24:45] <cradek> the parts that are harder to find
[02:24:56] <cradek> dev tools are just downloaded
[02:24:57] <jmkasunich> in galesburg all parts are hard to find
[02:25:03] <cradek> eek
[02:25:07] <jmkasunich> they _might_ have a radio shack
[02:25:17] <cradek> we better bring our junkboxes then
[02:25:28] <jmkasunich> I don't wnat to be doing hardware design there if I can possibly avoid it
[02:25:42] <jmkasunich> I will bring a soldering iron tho
[02:26:05] <cradek> I wonder if I'm overestimating what will fit in my little car...
[02:26:15] <cradek> all the parts to run my mill are bulky
[02:26:22] <jmkasunich> make jepler ride on the roof
[02:26:33] <jmkasunich> or carry the mill in his lap
[02:26:35] <cradek> but I know I'm going to want it there
[02:26:39] <cradek> haha
[02:26:46] <cradek> or the 21" monitor
[02:27:03] <jmkasunich> 21" tube? ouch
[02:27:15] <cradek> only the best (ca 1994) for me
[02:27:17] <jmkasunich> LCDs are mucho better for travel
[02:27:27] <skunkworks> yumm. threading and ridged tapping - radio shack has been getting worse and worse
[02:27:33] <jmkasunich> (I did the tube thing first couple fests)
[02:27:46] <cradek> yeah but I hesitate to take my $600 LCD anywhere
[02:28:00] <jmkasunich> I take my $700 LCD
[02:28:07] <jmkasunich> maybe foolish
[02:28:22] <cradek> you would know better than me - I've not seen the place
[02:28:23] <jmkasunich> (of course by now replacement cost is probably $500 or less)
[02:30:27] <jmkasunich> http://neme-s.org/CNC_Workshop/CNC_Workshop_3.htm
[02:30:29] <jmkasunich> pic
[02:30:46] <jmkasunich> computer area: http://neme-s.org/CNC_Workshop/CNC_Workshop_6.htm
[02:31:17] <jmkasunich> nother view of computers: http://neme-s.org/CNC_Workshop/CNC_Workshop_11.htm
[02:31:45] <jmkasunich> the guy in the black teeshirt and black hair to the left is fenn
[02:32:03] <jmkasunich> the guy standing is Ray (I suspect you already knew that)
[02:32:06] <cradek> the kid?
[02:32:11] <jmkasunich> yep
[02:32:15] <jmkasunich> hes a kid
[02:32:16] <cradek> cool
[02:32:22] <cradek> had no idea
[02:32:33] <jmkasunich> college I think
[02:32:54] <cradek> who are the rest?
[02:33:11] <staggerlytom> pic with 500Khz encoder thruput http://www.jrkerr.com/icprod.html
[02:33:29] <jmkasunich> mostly the backs fo peoples heads - they are people listening to ray's talk, probalbly not any of us
[02:33:37] <jmkasunich> http://neme-s.org/CNC_Workshop/CNC_Workshop_25.htm
[02:33:44] <jmkasunich> fenn car - he bought a lathe
[02:34:05] <cradek> looks like mine
[02:34:24] <cradek> maybe bigger
[02:34:38] <jmkasunich> in pic 3, the white haired guy leaning over the table is tom powderly aka staggerlytom
[02:34:45] <jmkasunich> I think
[02:35:04] <jmkasunich> http://neme-s.org/CNC_Workshop/CNC_Workshop_4.htm
[02:35:11] <jmkasunich> bald guy in the middle is roland
[02:35:27] <jmkasunich> slightly less bald guy left of him is dave-e
[02:35:50] <jmkasunich> pic 6 just as backs of heads again
[02:35:52] <cradek> next to these guys I'll be the kid
[02:35:53] <jmkasunich> fenn in the foreground
[02:36:20] <cradek> it's great to see all ages
[02:36:34] <jmkasunich> just don't look for all genders
[02:36:53] <cradek> people of different ages don't usually work together on stuff, online is changing that
[02:37:17] <cradek> yep for some reason, no women care about this kind of stuff
[02:38:12] <jmkasunich> more faces that have names: http://fenn.freeshell.org/retrofest/dcp_0377.jpg
[02:38:34] <jmkasunich> left to right, jon elson, dave e, ray back to camera, ready to hit estop, tom p
[02:39:06] <cradek> heh
[02:39:20] <skunkworks> any pics of you - jmk?
[02:39:20] <jmkasunich> http://fenn.freeshell.org/retrofest/dcp_0379.jpg
[02:39:35] <staggerlytom> "last supper" or "what I did on my summer vacation" ?
[02:39:39] <jmkasunich> tom p again, and me (whipping out the DMM to check something)
[02:40:31] <jmkasunich> and of course Boris: http://fenn.freeshell.org/retrofest/dcp_0392.jpg
[02:40:55] <staggerlytom> john, how well did the mazak run, as a toolmaker?
[02:40:56] <cradek> boris is definitely the cute one of the bunch
[02:41:24] <jmkasunich> when we left the axis all ran, but the toolchanger still needed work
[02:41:34] <cradek> 393 is ray?
[02:41:35] <jmkasunich> no idea how it will cut metal
[02:41:59] <jmkasunich> no
[02:42:21] <jmkasunich> here they are in context with subtitles: http://fenn.freeshell.org/retrofest/default.html
[02:42:35] <jmkasunich> crapload of pics there, I just picked the ones with people I recognized
[02:43:05] <cradek> ah
[02:43:31] <jmkasunich> another of me in 367
[02:43:34] <skunkworks> boy that sure looks like a lot of fun :)
[02:43:46] <jmkasunich> it was
[02:43:57] <jmkasunich> I really hated going back to my day job
[02:44:07] <cradek> skunkworks: coming?
[02:44:28] <skunkworks> don't think this time. Take a lot of pictures though.
[02:44:38] <staggerlytom> ray must've been hidin just then , he was there all the time
[02:44:53] <jmkasunich> yeah, most of the pics of ray show the back of his head
[02:46:26] <skunkworks> seen as how now I know what you guys look like - here is me in ireleand. My first pint (in ireleand ;)). http://www.electronicsam.com/images/me.JPG
[02:46:46] <jmkasunich> good choice of beer
[02:46:58] <cradek> eh, don't care for guinness
[02:47:14] <skunkworks> it was a good time. (don't care for beer actually)
[02:47:16] <cradek> I don't think there's a single photo of me on the whole web
[02:47:40] <jmkasunich> not many of me
[02:47:46] <cradek> alex keeps bugging me about it, he thinks maybe I'm a robot or something
[02:47:55] <jmkasunich> heh
[02:48:07] <skunkworks> Am I talking to a real person? ;)
[02:48:19] <staggerlytom> skunkworks, looks like you had fun
[02:48:24] <cradek> hard to say isn't it
[02:48:48] <jmkasunich> you pass the turing test anyway
[02:48:51] <cradek> I sure am worried about cvs
[02:49:00] <skunkworks> staggerlytom - we rented a car and drove all over ireland for a week
[02:49:12] <jmkasunich> is developer CVS screwed up now, or just anon?
[02:49:22] <staggerlytom> i wanna go walk there
[02:49:25] <cradek> don't know, I'm trying to use webcvs right this sec
[02:49:37] <jmkasunich> its screwed up because it uses anon
[02:50:31] <jmkasunich> ( 2006-03-13 12:42:16 - Project CVS Service ) As of 2006-03-12 pserver (anonymous) CVS services, along with tarballs and ViewCVS are down for projects that start with the letters e, i, j, o, v, w and x. We hope to resolve this issue in the next 2 days.
[02:50:46] <jmkasunich> well, its long past 2 days
[02:50:52] <cradek> webcvs is slowly working
[02:51:19] <jmkasunich> oh, thats an improvement then
[02:51:36] <jmkasunich> I tried to use it to answer a list question while I was traveling, no joy
[02:51:45] <cradek> I guess if we have recent checkouts, we will be able to do work even without cvs
[02:52:00] <jmkasunich> just can't share the results
[02:52:09] <cradek> not easily
[02:52:30] <cradek> well, not as easily
[02:52:39] <jmkasunich> I did a lot of "code on my box, commit, walk over to the mazak's PC, update, compile, run"
[02:52:52] <cradek> makes sense
[02:53:02] <cradek> you'd have to use your thumb drive or whatever they call those
[02:53:24] <jmkasunich> minor stuff I just did right on the mazak box, but things like brand new HAL modules, etc, were done on my box so as not to tie up the machine
[02:54:05] <jmkasunich> sneaker net would raise hell with the cvs checkouts when its finally time to sync with the repository
[02:54:17] <jmkasunich> I just really, really, really hope they aren't screwed up that week
[02:54:31] <cradek> yep
[02:54:41] <cradek> it would make everything much less fun.
[02:56:50] <cradek> hmm, it's supposed to snow through thursday
[02:57:22] <jmkasunich> yuck
[02:58:05] <cradek> I should drag the snowblower out tonight, but I'm probably going to procrastinate until it's a royal pain
[02:58:12] <cradek> I know myself pretty well
[02:58:26] <jmkasunich> how much snow are you expecting?
[02:58:29] <skunkworks> had the windows kinda down today driving. it was nice. (high thirties)
[02:58:37] <jmkasunich> I don't get the blower out for less than 8"
[02:58:47] <cradek> probably realistically only a few inches a day
[02:59:12] <cradek> I've got a really long driveway, and a small car that needs it clear
[02:59:48] <cradek> and the plows push gravel and ice together into a small mountain at the end of the driveway - it's impossible to shovel
[03:00:07] <jmkasunich> gravel? you live in the boonies?
[03:00:17] <cradek> I live in nebraska - we don't have pavement here
[03:00:29] <jmkasunich> here the plows push salt and slush and ice into the driveway
[03:00:30] <cradek> actually I do live a little outside town
[03:00:43] <jmkasunich> most of the time I wish I did
[03:01:06] <cradek> not even a mile from pavement, just far enough to keep traffic away
[03:01:11] <jmkasunich> (except during my 5 minute commute to work - the nearest non-built-up areas mean a 30 minute or more commute)
[03:01:38] <jmkasunich> the nearest affordable non-built-up areas are probably more like 45 mins to an hour
[03:01:44] <cradek> I'm lucky to have mostly highway to work, maybe 10 miles at 60mph
[03:02:28] <cradek> lincoln is a really nicely-sized city
[03:03:48] <jmkasunich> http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/tilePin.ashx?t=1&s=10&x=2304&y=22986&z=17&pin=126|127|258
[03:04:12] <cradek> is that red dot you?
[03:04:22] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:04:24] <jmkasunich> (more or less)
[03:05:21] <jmkasunich> to get the full effect you need to see the surroundings
[03:05:24] <cradek> jmkasunich: what's your nearest city?
[03:05:50] <jmkasunich> cleveland
[03:05:51] <jmkasunich> http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=15&Z=17&X=71&Y=717&W=1&qs=1256+Belrose+Road%7cMayfield+Heights%7coh%7c&Addr=1256+Belrose+Rd%2c+Cleveland%2c+OH+44124&ALon=-81.4682493&ALat=41.5260748
[03:05:58] <cradek> http://lincolnne.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=Lincoln&s1=NE&c2=cleveland&s2=OH
[03:06:46] <cradek> somehow we have worse theft than you
[03:06:51] <cradek> but not auto theft
[03:06:53] <cradek> strange
[03:06:57] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:08:26] <skunkworks> http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/tile.ashx?t=1&s=10&x=3206&y=24384&z=15
[03:08:40] <skunkworks> house isn't there yet in the photo ;)
[03:08:46] <jmkasunich> actual trees, nice
[03:08:52] <cradek> jmkasunich: your area looks really dense except you must be by a park or something?
[03:08:55] <jmkasunich> actually we have trees too
[03:09:04] <jmkasunich> yeah, the park is across the street
[03:09:11] <cradek> that's nice
[03:09:19] <jmkasunich> used to be an elementary school there, they tore it down 25 year or so ago
[03:09:33] <cradek> I'd much rather have a park...
[03:09:43] <jmkasunich> me too
[03:10:00] <jmkasunich> man, in the aerial photos, you really see how much suburbia there is
[03:10:09] <cradek> yeah no kidding
[03:10:11] <jmkasunich> street after street after street of 50 foot wide yards
[03:10:55] <skunkworks> http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/tile.ashx?t=1&s=10&x=3205&y=24383&z=15 - fathers shop - down the road.
[03:13:56] <cradek> what is it?
[03:14:20] <skunkworks> http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=15&X=3205&Y=24383&W=1&qs
[03:14:48] <skunkworks> tinker shop - odd jobs and "stuff" more of a hobby
[03:15:50] <cradek> jmk: this is local - wonder if I could use the encoder: http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006031821115904&item=10-1834&catname=
[03:16:07] <skunkworks> my drive way would be in the upper right of the picture - across from the other side road.
[03:16:40] <jmkasunich> maybe
[03:16:50] <cradek> hmm, probably no index
[03:16:59] <jmkasunich> the encoder is almost certainly kit style, no bearings
[03:17:08] <cradek> yeah
[03:17:21] <cradek> bad idea probably - waste of time
[03:17:42] <jmkasunich> nice motor tho
[03:18:05] <cradek> looks like it is tiny
[03:18:12] <jmkasunich> 4" long
[03:18:22] <jmkasunich> 1.5 dia
[03:18:39] <jmkasunich> bet it is at least as strong as jeplers etch-a-sketch ones
[03:18:44] <jmkasunich> no gearbox tho
[03:18:46] <cradek> maybe
[03:19:39] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/Hengstler-Danaher-Hollow-Shaft-Encoder-M21-0500-0-13A_W0QQitemZ7599305235QQcategoryZ67005QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[03:19:46] <cradek> after that experience I can't help but think I could run my little mill with something not much more complex
[03:19:57] <jmkasunich> my long daily commute: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=47.435825,69.960938&saddr=1256+Belrose+Rd,+Cleveland,+OH+44124+%4041.526102,-81.468450&daddr=%22allen+bradley+drive%22+mayfield+heights+ohio+44124&t=h
[03:20:49] <skunkworks> wow - lot of houses
[03:21:19] <cradek> skunkworks: wow, $7.99 for parcel post
[03:21:22] <jmkasunich> the burbs
[03:22:01] <cradek> jmkasunich: looks like a nice bicycle ride
[03:22:15] <jmkasunich> on the three days a year when the weather is nice
[03:24:44] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/Optical-Encoder-Oak-Grigsby-new-old-stock-LOT-3_W0QQitemZ7598926999QQcategoryZ67005QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[03:31:13] <cradek> skunkworks: those would be great if they had an index pulse
[03:31:23] <cradek> might even be 1/8 shaft
[03:32:05] <cradek> bbl
[03:41:13] <staggerlytom> nite all
[04:49:36] <jmkasunich> broke a tap....
[04:49:44] <cradek> oops
[04:49:56] <cradek> hope it isn't stuck in the work, that's the worst kind
[04:50:20] <jmkasunich> it is
[04:50:25] <cradek> arg
[04:50:31] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:51:14] <jmkasunich> I have no idea what I'm gonna do now
[04:51:45] <cradek> is it a blind hole?
[04:51:49] <jmkasunich> yes
[04:51:54] <cradek> arg again
[04:53:01] <cradek> I've always wondered if a tap could be made drillable by heating it to red and cooling slowly
[04:53:29] <jmkasunich> doubt it
[04:53:36] <cradek> yeah me too.
[04:53:38] <jmkasunich> carbon steel yes, HSS no
[04:53:56] <jmkasunich> besides the part is aluminum, it would melt
[04:54:08] <cradek> oh
[04:54:45] <cradek> what size tap?
[04:54:57] <jmkasunich> 6-32
[04:55:30] <cradek> broken right at the surface, I'm sure
[04:55:51] <jmkasunich> slightly below
[04:58:27] <cradek> I've had some luck removing broken steel screws from brass by rusting them away in an alum/water solution
[04:58:35] <cradek> probably your tap is WAY too big for that
[04:58:43] <cradek> (this is a watchmaker trick)
[04:59:09] <cradek> wonder if there's any other chemical-based answer
[04:59:28] <jmkasunich> 6-32 isn't huge, but it isn't small either
[05:00:05] <cradek> yeah, depends how much time you have, could take days/weeks
[05:00:51] <jmkasunich> if it takes that long I'd start over
[05:01:09] <jmkasunich> I once burned out a tap with a homemade edm rig
[05:01:15] <jmkasunich> major pain in the ass
[05:01:29] <cradek> walton tap extractor?
[05:01:52] <jmkasunich> nope, power supply, cap, small brass tube, bunch of other cra
[05:01:56] <cradek> I've heard of using edm for that... does sound like a pain
[05:01:57] <jmkasunich> p
[05:02:12] <cradek> http://www.newmantools.com/walton/extrtap.htm
[05:02:45] <jmkasunich> nope - spiral flute tap
[05:03:04] <cradek> arg
[06:30:42] <cradek> cool, I got a fake encoder running (fed by freqgen)
[06:35:59] <cradek> not sure how to make it reset (emulate index pulse) though
[06:36:38] <jmkasunich> another freqgen, in step/dir mode, running at a low frequency
[06:40:07] <jmkasunich> got the tap out (sort of)
[06:40:43] <jmkasunich> bashed and smashed at it with an assortment of punches, broke it up and got some out, drove the rest down into the part
[06:41:03] <jmkasunich> was able to drill 5/16 dia about 1/2 deep and tap 3/8-16
[06:41:25] <jmkasunich> gonna locktite a bolt in there, cut it off, and redrill and tap 6-32
[06:43:54] <jmkasunich> cool, 3/8-16 x 3/4 long aluminum studs
[06:44:04] <jmkasunich> mcmaster, $7.40 pack of 5
[07:19:21] <LawrenceG> cradek: you still awake?
[07:19:55] <LawrenceG> cradek: I have an encoder idea for you
[07:20:33] <dan_falck> * dan_falck is away: have to go out to my shop
[17:22:14] <staggerlytom> good day all
[17:22:49] <rayh> Hi tom
[17:24:45] <staggerlytom> hi Ray
[17:26:16] <staggerlytom> does the move to UBUNTU get us some form if IPC ( DBUS maybe ) ?
[17:26:31] <staggerlytom> form of IPC
[17:29:00] <alex_joni> staggerlytom: UBUNTU is another linux distribution
[17:29:08] <alex_joni> it has nothing to do with communication inside emc
[17:29:37] <staggerlytom> Yes, and many apps have difficulties working into the Debian frame, i wondered if IPC was ok on this variant
[17:30:35] <alex_joni> what kind of apps?
[17:31:25] <staggerlytom> (apps LiVES and othe video processing, stitching, audio and TTS ) but I see that DBUS tools are available for UBUNTU, so its not a question
[17:31:57] <staggerlytom> the Deb probs are usually that Deb is behind the bleeding edge in available .debs
[17:32:35] <staggerlytom> not Debian exactly, but the Sarge edition
[17:34:43] <cradek> staggerlytom: usually that just means you need to compile a deb - no big deal
[17:34:44] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh-away
[17:40:15] <staggerlytom> cradek: likely true, pkgs are not an endall remedy
[18:03:27] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[20:34:33] <rayh-away> rayh-away is now known as rayh
[21:02:27] <rayh> Just connected by univstep board and emc will not come up.
[21:02:53] <rayh> dmesg seems to say that the driver is installed and then it just quits with the term message.
[21:03:40] <rayh> Machine configuration file is 'univstep.ini'
[21:03:40] <rayh> Starting emc...
[21:03:40] <rayh> HAL: ERROR: thread '' not found
[21:03:40] <rayh> HAL config file /home/rayh/emc2/configs/univstep//univstep_load.hal failed.
[21:08:23] <cradek> # then run the motion controller
[21:08:23] <cradek> addf motion-command-handler
[21:08:23] <cradek> addf motion-controller
[21:08:40] <cradek> I think these two lines aren't right, because no thread is specified
[21:10:09] <rayh> Oh. That would do it.
[21:10:49] <cradek> addf motion-command-handler servo-thread
[21:10:50] <cradek> addf motion-controller servo-thread
[21:11:03] <cradek> I bet he meant this (found in core_stepper)
[21:12:39] <rayh> What file you looking in?
[21:12:48] <rayh> in univstep
[21:13:19] <cradek> univstep_load.hal
[21:25:43] <rayh> Got it thanks, Chris. I'll commit that.
[21:27:10] <cradek> welcome
[21:27:19] <cradek> did you check the rest of the configs?
[21:27:20] <alex_joni> hey guys
[21:27:42] <alex_joni> I ran stepper today, so that should be ok
[21:27:47] <jmkasunich> did I screw something up?
[21:27:51] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just finished watching a movie
[21:29:33] <jmkasunich> fsck, I think I left off the thread names in a lot of configs
[21:29:36] <jmkasunich> dammit
[21:29:38] <jmkasunich> I'll fix
[21:29:47] <jmkasunich> (in a minute)
[21:37:54] <rayh> I just found redundant references to tuning params in m5i20
[21:38:11] <rayh> I'll commit the fix in a few.
[21:45:56] <jmkasunich> rayh: I checked all the rest of the configs for missing thread names, only found one (and fixed it)
[21:46:29] <rayh> That should clean things up.
[21:47:36] <rayh> I found the double reference to ini because it showed em twice in the calib editor.
[21:47:48] <jmkasunich> nice cross check
[21:51:15] <alex_joni> rayh: seen halui?
[21:51:33] <alex_joni> hope you might also look over the pin names
[21:52:00] <alex_joni> I'll start coding this week probably
[22:02:47] <rayh> I'll download in a bit.
[22:19:57] <rayh> Hey alex_joni Where'd you put the listing.
[22:20:08] <alex_joni> in the file
[22:20:15] <alex_joni> in the big comment ontop
[22:20:33] <rayh> What directory?
[22:20:47] <alex_joni> usr_intf
[22:20:51] <alex_joni> next to emcsh.cc
[22:21:35] <rayh> Ah found it.
[22:31:35] <alex_joni> rayh: I'm heading for bed.. drop me an email if you have comments
[22:35:22] <rayh> Will do.
[22:40:28] <staggerlytom> nite all
[22:41:39] <alex_joni> nite all
[22:41:55] <rayh> catch you later.