#emc-devel | Logs for 2006-02-26

[03:34:00] <staggerlytom> hello all
[03:34:15] <cradek> hi
[05:27:04] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk_sleep
[12:35:04] <alex_joni> morning all
[13:43:18] <alex_joni> hmm.. no-one around?
[13:47:37] <alex_joni> morning ray
[13:47:47] <rayh> Hi alex
[13:48:06] <alex_joni> how are you feeling? better I hope
[13:48:29] <rayh> A bit. The pills are starting to kick it, I think.
[13:48:36] <alex_joni> that's good
[13:48:40] <rayh> How is your weather today?
[13:48:54] <alex_joni> cold & rainy
[13:49:01] <alex_joni> but inside it's nice ;)
[13:49:15] <alex_joni> I really want to talk to you about 2 things
[13:49:24] <rayh> k
[13:49:47] <alex_joni> 1 would be the tcl licensing task (which is still open, and which I trust we can easily finish)
[13:50:05] <alex_joni> 2 would be about the website
[13:50:45] <rayh> I'll try to get the gpl header on the remaining tcl files this morning.
[13:50:48] <alex_joni> care to talk about any of these? if not, I won't mind..
[13:51:09] <alex_joni> you don't have to.. I can do it, but I didn't want to step on your (and anybody else's toes)
[13:51:27] <rayh> Website. The front page looks very good.
[13:51:52] <alex_joni> it has i18n now, works in german too, very easy to translate
[13:51:59] <rayh> What is the purpose of the software that they are recommending we use for it.
[13:52:41] <rayh> ah. That explains some of the questions I had.
[13:52:57] <alex_joni> purpose? well 'joomla' is the CMS I chose for it, because it allows most of the things to be done via web interface
[13:53:09] <alex_joni> s/most/all/
[13:53:27] <rayh> I see the login page.
[13:53:58] <alex_joni> lets talk in board about specifics
[13:54:08] <rayh> The shtml isn't limited like wiki stuff though, or is it?
[13:54:14] <alex_joni> passwords & such
[13:54:26] <alex_joni> no, it's html all over, so you can do whatever you want
[13:54:52] <rayh> Okay. Then the only remaining question concerns hosting.
[13:55:05] <alex_joni> but for ease of usage, there is a wysiwig editor available, so if you don't know html (or don't want to bother), that's taken care of
[13:55:22] <alex_joni> yes, that part is not clear to me either
[13:55:54] <rayh> That works. I've tended to use bluefish.
[13:55:59] <alex_joni> but I wanted to populate the website with some data first (it's not all there yet, but it shows a basic concept)
[13:56:37] <alex_joni> now that I think it's good enough to show around, I was thinking of showing it to the board (most of the board already have seen it), then we should decide how to do it
[13:56:54] <alex_joni> ideally we would talk to steve about it, and see what the possibilities are
[13:57:13] <rayh> Right. Would you want to put it on your server as a test system.
[13:57:23] <alex_joni> afaik joomla works on doze too, but I only tried it on linux (it's AMP)
[13:57:31] <alex_joni> it is alrady set up as a test system
[13:58:09] <rayh> okay. You would just need to supply us names and passwords and we can test it?
[14:00:22] <rayh> Can you give me that link again?
[14:03:03] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/joomla/index.php
[14:04:23] <alex_joni> I need to go away for half an hour, when I get back I can walk you through.. ok?
[14:04:36] <rayh> k
[14:04:38] <rayh> Thanks
[14:05:10] <alex_joni> it's note very difficult, just some things that I need to explain so you'll get them easier (I fought a bit till I understood how it works )
[14:05:15] <alex_joni> bbl
[14:08:25] <rayh> logger_devel: bookmark
[14:08:25] <rayh> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emcdevel/2006-02-26#T14-08-25
[15:46:24] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[16:09:45] <alex_joni> hi steve
[16:14:23] <rayh> steve_stallings: Have you got a bit of time to talk about linuxcnc?
[16:16:09] <steve_stallings> Sure
[16:16:16] <alex_joni> yay ;)
[16:16:52] <steve_stallings> Let me get some coffee, brb
[16:16:57] <rayh> Go ahead, alex. I'll follow on as I can with this phone.
[16:18:08] <alex_joni> steve_stallings: say when back
[16:23:00] <steve_stallings> Back now, shoot
[16:23:30] <alex_joni> ok, you know the current webpage is pretty much outdated
[16:23:41] <alex_joni> some parts as content, and the most as design
[16:23:45] <steve_stallings> No kidding
[16:23:51] <alex_joni> no kidding ;)
[16:24:17] <alex_joni> ok, we've been talking about this in the past, so I decided to give it a go, and propose an alternative
[16:24:38] <alex_joni> I have some friends who did the design & helped on the framework, but it's up and running now
[16:24:50] <alex_joni> you can see it at: http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/joomla/index.php
[16:24:52] <steve_stallings> That is welcome, I signed on a host and somehow became defacto webmaster.
[16:25:26] <alex_joni> take a look around that page, and let me know what you think. we can then talk about webmaster & all (hint: it'll be easier)
[16:26:01] <jepler> swpadnos has a linux hosting deal, and in the past he's talked about hosting emc-related files (I think he has a bdi mirror, and offered to host cradek's ubuntu packages too)
[16:26:42] <alex_joni> jepler: any offer is appreciated, but I'd stick with steve (if technical & such are ok)
[16:27:00] <alex_joni> and if he still wants to host it.. if not we'll start to look around
[16:31:51] <steve_stallings> Looks good Alex. What is required to run Joomla. My box is -gag- WinNT4 at the moment and will probably become WinNT2K. Bandwidth is only 383K symetrical DSL.
[16:32:13] <alex_joni> joomla runs on php & mysql
[16:32:29] <alex_joni> that can be set up on doze aswell (using WAMP or similar)
[16:34:15] <alex_joni> not sure if that works ok, I never tested (but read it is possible)
[16:35:13] <steve_stallings> Current box is probably too week to add mysql. My plans are to upgrade box and internet circuit sometime around June/July as I plan to move in June.
[16:35:39] <steve_stallings> I have on agenda so far as being host, that is Ray's call.
[16:36:01] <alex_joni> do you still want to do that? (no problem if not..)
[16:36:33] <alex_joni> I'm happy if you do (saves us the problem of moving DNS records & such), but it's ok either way.. your call
[16:38:48] <jmk_sleep> jmk_sleep is now known as jmkasunich
[16:39:07] <jmkasunich> steve_stallings: what speed/etc is the existing box?
[16:40:19] <jmkasunich> I assume you want to stick with windows?
[16:41:42] <steve_stallings> phone, one moment
[16:54:58] <steve_stallings> Back now
[16:55:18] <alex_joni> ok, so .. jmk was wondering what box you have for that
[16:55:46] <steve_stallings> Box is WinNT-4, ancient. Will be replaced with Win2k and new box about June. Circuit is 384K symetric DSL.
[16:55:58] <jmkasunich> yeah, I read back that part
[16:56:01] <jmkasunich> how ancient?
[16:56:37] <steve_stallings> 128 Mb, 266 pentium, scsi raid, DAT tape
[16:56:40] <jmkasunich> would a dual 600MHz Pentium 3 with 2x 18G SCSI drives and RAID be a step up? or do you just want to buy new
[16:57:03] <steve_stallings> hardware is not a problem for me, just time to do the transition
[16:57:28] <jmkasunich> ok, I have that box (actually a 3.5" high rackmount server) and I figured I'd offer
[16:58:02] <steve_stallings> lots of stuff to move, mail server, list server, metalworking dropbox, DNS server, Cold Fusion, ......
[16:58:07] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: hate it when I'm so far away.. I would have loved a server like that (not for free I mean)
[16:58:54] <jmkasunich> bummer - pay the freight and it would be yours, I paid nothing for it, and from anyone who contributes to EMC development I would expect nothing
[16:59:02] <alex_joni> steve_stallings: that gets +
[16:59:12] <alex_joni> that gets easily hard to do (lots to move)
[16:59:54] <steve_stallings> plus there are a fair number of changes to domain management and DNS between NT3 and 2K
[17:00:04] <steve_stallings> NT4
[17:01:15] <steve_stallings> given the time investment it is a shame not to move to Linux, but that complicates too many other issues with my business
[17:03:21] <steve_stallings> I see you guys have been very busy getting EMC2 ready for us Aunt Tillie types. Thanks.
[17:03:38] <alex_joni> steve_stallings: how about a second box?
[17:03:45] <alex_joni> or wouldn't that be ok?
[17:04:23] <steve_stallings> Also see from Alex's prototype web page that groundwork has been laid for documenting an install other than BDI. Again, progress.
[17:04:56] <alex_joni> steve_stallings: lots of progress lately..
[17:05:26] <steve_stallings> Second box, second fixed IP, have to pay monthly for each fixed IP. Might as well pay for hosting service somewhere.
[17:05:44] <alex_joni> right..
[17:05:52] <jmkasunich> router!
[17:06:01] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: doesn't help
[17:06:25] <jmkasunich> duh
[17:06:36] <alex_joni> but you could have a smart router that accesses two boxes behind it based on the page requested
[17:06:47] <jmkasunich> I was thinking different services - you could route port 80 to one box and another port to another
[17:06:49] <steve_stallings> Cheap routers will not direct port 80 traffic to multiple web servers.
[17:06:59] <alex_joni> and it gets easily messy
[17:07:04] <jmkasunich> but if everything is html on port 80, you can't split it
[17:07:20] <alex_joni> you can, but not with a stock router
[17:07:27] <alex_joni> a little bit of iptables foo, and it works
[17:07:34] <alex_joni> but it's ugly..
[17:07:39] <jmkasunich> if you had ftp or mail or etc, then you could split based on service
[17:07:46] <alex_joni> and an unnecessary complication
[17:07:46] <jmkasunich> forget I said anything ;-)
[17:08:14] <steve_stallings> No, I'll just set up the hardware and give JMK admin status.
[17:08:24] <jmkasunich> forget I said anything ;-)
[17:09:14] <alex_joni> lol, ok.
[17:09:42] <alex_joni> steve_stallings: it seems it's kinda complicated for you, mind if we look around and see what alternatives there are?
[17:10:55] <steve_stallings> Not at all. I may be "old reliable", but I am not that effective and don't have any pride invested in being host.
[17:11:33] <steve_stallings> In my experience shared efforts tend to get hung up on money issues. If you can dodge that bullet people should be happy.
[17:12:17] <jmkasunich> I'd be more than happy to donate that server hardware, the problem will be the net connection
[17:13:04] <jmkasunich> heh, if I act quickly (next few days) I can get a matching disk array, 8x18G SCSI drives with redundant power supplies and rackmount
[17:14:39] <rayh> <steve_stallings> wrote -- I have on agenda so far as being host, that is Ray's call.
[17:14:42] <steve_stallings> Just set up a Dell at the office with dual 533 CPU, redundant supplies, raid aware SCSI, and Mammoth tape. Old but sweet.
[17:15:27] <rayh> I'm happy that the emc board is moving into this issue and pleased to turn over any interest I might have to them.
[17:16:01] <rayh> My only concern is that the board is not an entity any any USA sence.
[17:16:37] <steve_stallings> Thus the issues with money.....
[17:17:14] <cradek> it looks like we have hardware, we have manpower to set up and administer it, but we don't have somewhere to put it and hook it up to the net.
[17:17:56] <jmkasunich> that last one is the one that involves a continuing stream of $
[17:18:17] <jmkasunich> not big $ I don't think, but $
[17:18:24] <cradek> we all are happy to volunteer time but not money...
[17:19:46] <rayh> I have been offered a few dollars a few times for emc -- My reluctance to accept is a question of who receives.
[17:22:59] <jmkasunich> I have one question?
[17:23:13] <jmkasunich> why aren't we using the webspace that SF gives us?
[17:23:50] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: do they provide mysql?
[17:24:14] <steve_stallings> Doesn't the current wiki use mysql?
[17:24:45] <jmkasunich> I dunno, have to go there and look
[17:24:53] <alex_joni> no, it uses files for storing data
[17:25:00] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: I can look into it
[17:25:04] <jmkasunich> mysql is for the joomba thing right?
[17:27:09] <alex_joni> yes
[17:27:15] <alex_joni> it is available it seems
[17:27:34] <cradek> looks like they have mysql, ssi, cgi, php
[17:27:46] <jmkasunich> the price is right
[17:27:59] <alex_joni> yup, and 100MB is more than enough
[17:28:03] <cradek> seems like an obvious thing to try
[17:28:09] <alex_joni> ok, I can sign up to do that
[17:28:14] <alex_joni> how about the wiki?
[17:28:35] <jmkasunich> I have no idea how that is set up
[17:28:51] <alex_joni> it's set up at emc.sourceforge.net
[17:28:53] <alex_joni> in the root dir
[17:28:56] <jmkasunich> would the joomba thing replace the wiki or do we still want it?
[17:29:04] <alex_joni> we still want a wiki
[17:29:08] <jmkasunich> ok
[17:29:11] <cradek> preferably a different one though
[17:29:12] <alex_joni> and it's joomla not joomba ;)
[17:29:21] <jmkasunich> oops, sorry
[17:29:24] <alex_joni> cradek: yes, but that's a different topic ;)
[17:29:42] <cradek> alex_joni: I'll help with setup however I can
[17:30:46] <steve_stallings> I think the wiki currently has some sort of special mechanism to do automated backups so that "temp" stuff doesn't get lost. Will that be an issue for Joomla?
[17:30:57] <cradek> SourceForge.net requires that the SourceForge.net logo (and a link to http://www.sourceforge.net associated with that logo) be included on all project web pages served from our project web service.
[17:31:28] <jmkasunich> cradek: I don't see that as a problem
[17:31:35] <steve_stallings> A reasonable request in my opinion.
[17:31:38] <alex_joni> cradek: right, we'll add that to the footer
[17:31:46] <alex_joni> it's pretty ok
[17:33:01] <steve_stallings> Can any "developer" edit a web site on sourceforge? Security issues?
[17:33:23] <alex_joni> steve_stallings: there are various levels for users
[17:33:41] <alex_joni> they can be set-up as publishers & webadmins so they can do that
[17:33:47] <alex_joni> but it's best if not all are allowed
[17:34:45] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: so it's ok if I try to set up joomla on emc.sourceforge.net/new/ ?
[17:34:50] <alex_joni> or maybe a different name?
[17:35:00] <alex_joni> emc.sourceforge.net/ should stay as wiki for now
[17:35:01] <jmkasunich> why are you asking me?
[17:35:14] <alex_joni> you had the idea of moving to SF ;) (which is reasonable) :P
[17:35:26] <jmkasunich> how about emc.sourceforge.net/joomla
[17:35:34] <alex_joni> ok, that is ok
[17:35:45] <jmkasunich> I assume that eventually we'll make linuxcnc.org point wherever we need it to point
[17:35:56] <alex_joni> yeah..
[17:36:44] <rayh> The power to "make linuxcnc.org point wherever we need it to point" is my last concern here.
[17:36:58] <rayh> Steve holds that key now.
[17:37:01] <alex_joni> that's DNS foo, it can be taken care of
[17:37:08] <alex_joni> yeah, sure
[17:59:18] <alex_joni> hi SWPadnos
[17:59:25] <SWPadnos> hi
[17:59:27] <alex_joni> we were wondering where you were
[17:59:35] <jmkasunich> back from vacation?
[17:59:36] <SWPadnos> Texas ;)
[17:59:37] <SWPadnos> yep
[17:59:44] <alex_joni> can you read back todays logs on emc-devel and tell us your oppinions?
[17:59:50] <SWPadnos> sure
[18:00:02] <alex_joni> logger_devel: bookmark
[18:00:02] <alex_joni> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emcdevel/2006-02-26#T18-00-02
[18:00:20] <SWPadnos> I have a bookmark for the directory :)
[18:00:31] <alex_joni> even better
[18:00:56] <SWPadnos> do I need to look at the end of yesterday's log as well?
[18:01:16] <alex_joni> don't think so
[18:01:34] <alex_joni> about since 3pm today (gmt+2)
[18:01:54] <SWPadnos> ok, around the time skunkworks left
[18:02:19] <SWPadnos> and cradek made the tp changes
[18:02:29] <alex_joni> cradek: busted
[18:02:34] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:11:08] <SWPadnos> duh - you write 3pm, and I'm looking at 03:00 (AM). oops :)
[18:11:25] <alex_joni> 1500
[18:11:28] <SWPadnos> was wondering what dovetail ways had to do with emc devel ;)
[18:11:29] <alex_joni> 1300 GMT
[18:11:41] <alex_joni> sorry?
[18:12:04] <SWPadnos> there were discussions about high speed spindles, round cilumn rong-fu mills, and that sort of thing
[18:12:08] <SWPadnos> column
[18:12:15] <alex_joni> heh.. missed those
[18:12:29] <SWPadnos> well, it was 03:00 :)
[18:12:53] <alex_joni> ok.. glad I missed those ;)
[18:13:01] <alex_joni> went to bed around 2:30 am
[18:13:15] <SWPadnos> just in time
[18:14:02] <SWPadnos> I suppose it would also have been better for me to look at the emc-devel logs, not the emc logs
[18:14:11] <SWPadnos> man, I'm stupid before I've had enough coffee
[18:14:26] <alex_joni> guess why I sent you the link?
[18:14:37] <SWPadnos> yeah yeah, blah blah blah
[18:14:46] <alex_joni> lol
[18:22:28] <SWPadnos> ok - just caught up (and got more coffee)
[18:23:16] <jmkasunich> SWP: did you read my email about the disk array?
[18:23:41] <SWPadnos> yep - didn't have a chance to respond
[18:24:04] <SWPadnos> I may be interested, if I end up driving to CNC workshop / Fest
[18:24:32] <jmkasunich> the thing is still on the dock, if I want it I need to grab it tomorrow
[18:25:02] <SWPadnos> do you know the drive speeds (RPM or SCSI type)?
[18:25:49] <jmkasunich> hmmm
[18:25:53] <jmkasunich> not specifically
[18:26:09] <jmkasunich> they have the 80 pin hot-plug connectors (power and data on same connector)
[18:26:23] <SWPadnos> ok. well, if it's a PITA to get it, then it's probably not worth it (sad to say)
[18:26:42] <jmkasunich> they're taller than the normal form factor, about 1-1/4" instead of <1"
[18:26:47] <SWPadnos> the total storage is 144G, which is peanuts these days
[18:26:57] <SWPadnos> "full height" - 1.6 inches
[18:26:59] <jmkasunich> (8 fit across the rack with not much to spare)
[18:27:01] <jmkasunich> yeah
[18:27:16] <jmkasunich> right - I was commenting to another guy about the densith
[18:27:21] <jmkasunich> sity even
[18:27:28] <SWPadnos> I have 3 x 36G drives now, and a hot-swap cage
[18:27:42] <jmkasunich> there was another older rack from a VAX there - 8x2G drives
[18:27:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:27:56] <jmkasunich> so one drive in the nice rack replaces a whole rack of the VAX stuff
[18:27:57] <SWPadnos> better than an RL-05 disk pack
[18:28:11] <jmkasunich> and one modern drive replaces the whole rack of 18G drives
[18:28:20] <SWPadnos> one not-so-modern drive, these days
[18:28:29] <jmkasunich> or a whole _cabinet_ of the VAX stuff
[18:28:45] <SWPadnos> I have two 300G SATA drives for my new machine, and could have 8 if I wanted
[18:28:47] <jmkasunich> modern = 160/250GB isn't it?
[18:28:52] <SWPadnos> (and they could be 500G also)
[18:28:53] <jmkasunich> wow
[18:29:03] <jmkasunich> ok, it stays there
[18:29:12] <SWPadnos> they were a whopping $120 each
[18:29:22] <jmkasunich> shame tho, that thing was built like a brick sh*thouse
[18:29:38] <SWPadnos> yeah - I hate to see quality replaced by "economy"
[18:30:08] <jmkasunich> if I had the space I'd bring the racks home, they're quite nice
[18:30:58] <SWPadnos> that's why I asked about the interface - you can get higher density drives for the cage (pretty cheaply), but if it's WSCSI or Ultra2 (80M/sec), it's probably not worth it
[18:31:11] <SWPadnos> I think U160 or U320 would be worth it though, for the cage
[18:31:51] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: any tape drives in that dumpster? :D
[18:31:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:32:11] <jmkasunich> no
[18:32:23] <alex_joni> maybe one day ;)
[18:32:33] <jmkasunich> there were a couple tape libraries a while back, each had two drives
[18:32:40] <jmkasunich> some strange tape format
[18:33:02] <jmkasunich> there weren't any tapes in there, but when I took apart a drive, it seems the cartridge only has one reel
[18:33:08] <alex_joni> I see.. I'd prefer something I can get tapes for ;)
[18:33:30] <jmkasunich> the drive grabs the end of the tape and winds it up on an internal reel, then unwinds it back into the cardridge when done
[18:33:59] <jmkasunich> I took the libraries apart for the small servomotors from the tape handling parts
[18:35:01] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I could have gotten one of these for free: http://www.dealtime.com/xPO-Seagate_CERTANCE_TRAVAN_20GB_DESKTOP_USB_2_0_TAPEWARE_XE_MEDIA
[18:35:07] <alex_joni> but I turned it down
[18:35:24] <SWPadnos> smart move
[18:35:27] <SWPadnos> travan tapes are crap
[18:35:55] <SWPadnos> or at least, they were 5-10 years ago
[18:36:10] <alex_joni> 10G is .. crap ;)
[18:36:17] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:36:36] <alex_joni> likewise 1MB/s
[18:36:39] <alex_joni> err..
[18:36:48] <alex_joni> 1Mbps
[18:37:00] <SWPadnos> yep - those drives used to be connected to the floppy controller
[18:37:08] <alex_joni> it's USB though
[18:37:18] <SWPadnos> but still a floppy interface internally, I'd bet
[18:37:47] <alex_joni> yeah, probably an USB->floppy chip in there
[18:38:27] <SWPadnos> that's why I mentioned (something like) total backup time as one of the parameters when searching for a tape drive
[18:38:47] <SWPadnos> so - on the hosting issue - I have bandwidth and storage to spare
[18:39:07] <SWPadnos> that can be used for linuxcnc.org
[18:39:15] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: we had an idea from jmk to use SF for that
[18:39:29] <alex_joni> they provide 100 MB for each project + mysql & all
[18:39:37] <SWPadnos> that would be good most of the time, though a full distro could be a problem
[18:39:47] <alex_joni> I'll try to set up things there, if it won't work, then we'll ask you..
[18:39:55] <alex_joni> no distro to mirror
[18:39:57] <SWPadnos> also the service is spotty sometimes
[18:40:12] <SWPadnos> though they have lots of mirrors, so that shouldn't be a problem
[18:40:15] <alex_joni> yes, that's a problem
[18:40:24] <jmkasunich> now that we're moving toward ubuntu, a full distro shouldn't be needed
[18:40:47] <SWPadnos> mostly true, though I think a live CD and/or a BDI-like installation should still be an option
[18:40:48] <alex_joni> but I didn't see many problems with www on SF (lots with CVS & shell)
[18:41:20] <jmkasunich> SF won't want us doing that (and the space limit would prevent it anyway)
[18:41:28] <alex_joni> yeah
[18:41:35] <jmkasunich> but we could link to .iso stored elsewhere
[18:41:40] <SWPadnos> right
[18:41:41] <alex_joni> but they support something like that in the file release.. though
[18:41:46] <jmkasunich> (like your server, if you have the space/bw)
[18:41:47] <alex_joni> even if it's not encouraged
[18:41:56] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has space on his mirror
[18:42:10] <SWPadnos> 67G storage, 1834GB/mo bandwidth
[18:42:14] <alex_joni> a few dozen gigs
[18:42:24] <alex_joni> no limit on bandwith here
[18:42:34] <SWPadnos> except the connection ;)
[18:42:37] <alex_joni> 1834GB ? or 1.834 GB
[18:42:46] <SWPadnos> 1.834 TB
[18:42:56] <jmkasunich> thats a lot of isos
[18:42:59] <alex_joni> oh, you have a limit for 1.834 TB ? that's mad :D
[18:43:05] <SWPadnos> heh - yep
[18:43:16] <alex_joni> wonder what good that does
[18:43:29] <SWPadnos> nothing, it's essentially unlimited
[18:43:39] <cradek> we may one day have a live CD based on ubuntu
[18:43:41] <SWPadnos> and it goes up by 16GB per week
[18:44:06] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes back to joomla
[18:44:41] <jmkasunich> that limit is to keep you from hosting pron
[18:44:45] <SWPadnos> hmmm - that's about equivalent to saturating 4 T1 lines all month
[18:45:16] <alex_joni> high-quality pr0n ;)
[18:45:19] <alex_joni> lol
[18:45:26] <SWPadnos> yeah, baby
[18:45:40] <SWPadnos> pr0n ISOs (DVD, of course)
[18:46:29] <SWPadnos> the other hosting option I had suggested was to get a separate account for linuxcnc (not needed at the moment, but it's an option)
[18:46:38] <SWPadnos> I can give a discount of $97 on a hosting plan
[18:47:09] <SWPadnos> the same plan I have is $16/mo with a 2 year prepayment, or $380-ish total for 2 years
[18:47:22] <SWPadnos> 280-ish after discount
[18:49:43] <jepler> http://forevergeek.com/geek_resources/dreamhost_promo_codes.php
[18:50:09] <jepler> I test drove one of their accounts, and the first-year cost would have been around $30 using one of the codes. A higher price after that, though.
[18:50:37] <SWPadnos> that's the thing I like about the plan I have - it's the same (or lower) in perpetuity
[18:50:56] <SWPadnos> the discount is a one-time thing (basically, I donate the referral bonus)
[18:51:26] <jepler> yeah, but 93% off the first year may be more than $97 off. depending on the plan.
[18:51:36] <SWPadnos> almost guaranteed, actually ;)
[18:57:50] <SWPadnos> ok - it looks like these codes aren'r anything special - the 93% off is only up to the $97 referral fee, not a true 93% discount
[18:57:53] <SWPadnos> aren't
[19:10:50] <alex_joni> jepler: you around?
[19:10:58] <alex_joni> cradek seems to be gone..
[19:11:07] <alex_joni> * alex_joni needs some help sorting something out
[19:11:22] <SWPadnos> cat something | sort > out
[19:13:25] <alex_joni> I'm getting errors from the installer, saying it's not beeing able to write to some files, yet I have them all chmod'ed as 777
[19:15:18] <SWPadnos> hmmm - several changes to Makefile in the last week
[19:23:47] <cradek> I'm back
[19:55:55] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[21:53:06] <_steve> http://www.fruitsalad.org/people/phil/kde/userguide-tng/kde-menu.html
[21:54:21] <alex_joni> _steve: ?
[21:55:12] <SWPadnos> yes
[21:55:15] <steves_logging> swp - not stallings
[21:55:19] <SWPadnos> nope
[21:55:24] <SWPadnos> err - yep
[21:55:28] <_steve> I am me
[21:55:44] <cradek> I am confused
[21:55:51] <SWPadnos> I am not
[21:55:54] <alex_joni> I am unaware
[21:55:54] <jmkasunich> _steve = SWP
[21:55:56] <SWPadnos> confused
[21:55:58] <SWPadnos> about that
[21:56:01] <alex_joni> ;)
[21:56:04] <SWPadnos> yes, _steve is SWPadnos
[21:56:08] <cradek> * cradek hides
[21:56:13] <_steve> I agre
[21:56:15] <_steve> e
[21:56:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni cries in agony
[21:56:30] <_steve> _steve is now known as SWP_Laptop
[21:56:37] <jmkasunich> better
[21:56:37] <SWP_Laptop> how's that?
[21:56:48] <alex_joni> lots better
[21:57:58] <jmkasunich> I wonder how well Linux/X deals with hotplugging mice and keyboards
[21:58:06] <cradek> fine
[21:58:07] <SWPadnos> very well, in my experience
[21:58:15] <jmkasunich> good
[21:58:18] <alex_joni> not if they are PS2 typed
[21:58:18] <SWPadnos> waaaaaaaay better than Windows
[21:58:29] <SWPadnos> even there, I've had pretty good success
[21:58:33] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is about to start testing surplus KVM switches
[21:58:44] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yes, I have to, but I once fried a mobo
[21:58:51] <alex_joni> because I pulled the keyboard out
[21:59:03] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich stops in his tracks
[21:59:05] <SWPadnos> well, ymmv ;)
[21:59:18] <SWPadnos> probably a static problem
[21:59:27] <alex_joni> seems USB is meant for hotplugging, PS/2 is not
[22:00:07] <SWPadnos> correct
[22:00:52] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: it might work.. but use at your own risk ;)
[22:01:02] <alex_joni> you'll end up using a USB keyboard in the end
[22:01:26] <jmkasunich> nah, PS/2 forever
[22:01:35] <cradek> good kvm do not let the computer see the stuff being disconnected
[22:01:48] <alex_joni> no, I mean you'll have to use USB, after the PS/2 port is fried
[22:01:57] <alex_joni> cradek: I thought any KVM does that?
[22:01:58] <jmkasunich> cradek: I know, but that's not what I'm doing
[22:02:20] <alex_joni> it's a problem with setting up the KVM while the PC is/are running.. right?
[22:02:21] <jmkasunich> I'm about to disconnect my 2-way kvm and put a 4-way in its splace
[22:02:27] <cradek> ah
[22:02:29] <alex_joni> stack em
[22:02:30] <jmkasunich> its place
[22:02:30] <alex_joni> =))
[22:02:50] <jmkasunich> except it looks like I'm not after all
[22:03:06] <jmkasunich> I coulda swore the 4-way ones had normal connectors on back
[22:03:19] <jmkasunich> but they're DB-25 (for special cables)
[22:04:30] <alex_joni> seems we do need to look around for a hoster for linuxcnc.org
[22:04:43] <alex_joni> SF's site (at least at the moment) is not really useable
[22:04:44] <jmkasunich> SWP offered
[22:04:56] <alex_joni> SWP: how much?
[22:11:03] <alex_joni> night all
[22:22:37] <SWPadnos> oops - hi there
[22:22:44] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, how much what?
[22:24:00] <cradek> he's gone to bed
[22:24:11] <SWPadnos> ok - I saw the good-bye, but no sign-off
[22:24:21] <jmkasunich> his computer lurks
[22:24:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:24:31] <jmkasunich> he was asking about hosting
[22:24:47] <SWPadnos> yep - 67G storage + 1834 GB/month bandwidth, free!
[22:24:48] <jmkasunich> either "how much disk/bandwidth" or "how much $" I dunno which
[22:25:15] <cradek> wow do you think you could give us a little better price?
[22:25:15] <SWPadnos> or, roughly $300 for 2 years, for a new plan (I'll donate the $97 referral bonus)
[22:25:25] <SWPadnos> yes, for you, it's twice as much!
[22:25:57] <cradek> so we could use your plan for free OR pay $300? let me think about this
[22:26:06] <jmkasunich> think, think, think
[22:26:07] <SWPadnos> well, that's a tough one, isn't it :)
[22:26:27] <SWPadnos> at some point, I'd need to kick you guys off, if I ever get my ass in gear and actually use my websites
[22:26:49] <SWPadnos> but that's not likely before the end of the year or so
[22:26:52] <cradek> no sweet deal is ever forever
[22:26:57] <SWPadnos> (at least, if I know my butt)
[22:29:28] <jmkasunich> well poop!
[22:29:41] <jmkasunich> I was looking forward to having a 4-way KVM
[22:29:50] <cradek> you don't have the right cables?
[22:30:00] <jmkasunich> apparently not
[22:30:12] <jmkasunich> there are more cables in the truck, but I think they go the 16-way
[22:30:24] <cradek> darn
[22:30:30] <jmkasunich> http://www.raritan.com/products/kvm_switches/master_console/mast_con_II/prd_cms_index.aspx?currpg=prd_cms_index&name=MasterConsole%20II&content_category=4&overview_flag=Y&features_flag=Y&spec_flag=Y&support_flag=Y&status=4
[22:30:36] <jmkasunich> I have two of those
[22:30:48] <jmkasunich> http://www.raritan.com/products/kvm_switches/compu_switch/compu_switch/prd_cms_index.aspx?currpg=prd_cms_index&name=CompuSwitch&content_category=1&overview_flag=Y&features_flag=Y&spec_flag=Y&support_flag=Y&status=4
[22:30:50] <jmkasunich> one of those
[22:31:05] <jmkasunich> I could have sworn they had regular connectors on the back
[22:31:11] <jmkasunich> I have about 12 sets of regular cables
[22:31:21] <cradek> they are 8 way?
[22:31:26] <jmkasunich> 4 way
[22:31:36] <jmkasunich> (those products come 2, 4, or 8)(
[22:31:40] <cradek> ah
[22:33:53] <cradek> ouch the cables are $50 each at cdw
[22:33:58] <cradek> http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=531777
[22:34:35] <jmkasunich> KVM cables are a ripoff
[22:34:43] <cradek> bigtime
[22:34:51] <jmkasunich> thats why the manufactureres changed from standard pinouts
[22:34:54] <cradek> simple matter of soldering??
[22:35:11] <jmkasunich> if it comes to that, perhaps
[22:35:17] <jmkasunich> krufty tho
[22:35:27] <cradek> if you had even one to test for pinout
[22:35:53] <cradek> shouldn't be too bad to hack up and terminate your existing cable sets in a DB25 shell
[22:36:04] <jmkasunich> I have one other 4-way, a belkin F1D066, but the bastards don't even have it on their website anymore
[22:36:23] <jmkasunich> that one uses regular cables ;-)
[22:36:39] <jmkasunich> but the Raritan ones are the right size to sit under my LCD
[22:37:11] <cradek> woooo
[22:37:12] <cradek> http://www.cablesforless.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2484
[22:37:38] <jmkasunich> woot!
[22:37:45] <cradek> cheap + pinout
[22:37:54] <jmkasunich> at that price I
[22:37:58] <jmkasunich> I'd buy four
[22:38:18] <cradek> I probably would too, faced with soldering all those connectors
[22:38:28] <jmkasunich> I much prefer molded ends
[22:38:42] <jmkasunich> hmm, quantity discount
[22:38:48] <cradek> ow, it's only 6.5'
[22:39:17] <cradek> do your 16-way boxes take the same cables?
[22:39:18] <jmkasunich> good enough for me, I have two computers on the bench, the additional ports are for laptop or testing use
[22:39:32] <jmkasunich> the 16-way boxes are Black-Box
[22:39:40] <jmkasunich> I have 16 cables that I think match them
[22:39:49] <jmkasunich> that load is still in the truck, I should bring it in next
[22:43:04] <jmkasunich> yeah, these cables are marked Black-Box
[22:43:11] <jmkasunich> EHN282-0020
[22:43:19] <jmkasunich> I'm guessing 20 ft
[22:43:45] <cradek> nice
[22:44:17] <jmkasunich> blackbox model SW725A-R2
[22:46:06] <jmkasunich> drat, no longer listed on their website
[22:46:08] <cradek> ebay $119 BIN with no cables
[22:46:17] <cradek> and no power supply
[22:46:20] <cradek> what a DEAL
[22:46:46] <jmkasunich> other one is KV134A
[22:46:56] <jmkasunich> I have no power supply
[22:47:53] <cradek> don't see that one on ebay...
[22:49:54] <jmkasunich> http://www.blackbox.com/Catalog/Detail.aspx?cid=537,604,539&mid=476
[22:50:21] <jmkasunich> in-fricking-sane pricing
[22:50:48] <jmkasunich> they don't list KV134A, just KV134A-R2
[22:50:50] <SWPadnos> blackbox is often the most expensive alternative
[22:50:58] <jmkasunich> that is the mainframe, there are four cards
[22:51:03] <jmkasunich> KV1301C
[22:51:09] <cradek> 1000 computers and 16 consoles?? holy crap
[22:51:18] <jmkasunich> the website lists KV1301C-R2
[22:51:24] <SWPadnos> one customer: google ;)
[22:51:38] <cradek> yeah maybe
[22:51:47] <jmkasunich> at least one other
[22:51:50] <cradek> if you had to use windows for servers, you would really need this stuff
[22:51:58] <SWPadnos> yep
[22:51:58] <jmkasunich> (the one whose dumpster I picked this out of ;-)
[22:52:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:52:05] <cradek> haha
[22:58:52] <jmkasunich> according to blackbox, the -R2 is a firmware revision
[22:59:53] <jmkasunich> ok, this box lets up to four users access up to 16 CPUs
[23:00:03] <cradek> wow
[23:00:08] <jmkasunich> and lists for $4995
[23:00:22] <cradek> wow again
[23:00:30] <SWPadnos> wow^2
[23:00:39] <cradek> here's one at $1628: macmall.com
[23:00:48] <jmkasunich> I have the CPU to box cables
[23:01:21] <jmkasunich> but not the box to user cable(s)
[23:01:50] <SWPadnos> here's one at NewEgg for $89.99
[23:02:45] <cradek> that seems unlikely...?
[23:02:52] <jmkasunich> one cable?
[23:03:17] <SWPadnos> not one cable (a medusa to the CPUs, or combined keyboard/mouse/video?)
[23:03:51] <jmkasunich> there are 20 DB-25 female connectors on back of the box
[23:03:57] <jmkasunich> 16 go to computers
[23:04:00] <jmkasunich> 4 go to users
[23:04:03] <SWPadnos> nasty
[23:04:32] <SWPadnos> what resolution video can you get through those cables? (or the electronics)
[23:04:44] <jmkasunich> they claim 1280x1024
[23:04:51] <jmkasunich> for servers that should be plenty
[23:04:58] <cradek> they're never as clear as a local monitor
[23:05:03] <SWPadnos> should be
[23:05:08] <SWPadnos> (plenty, not as clear)
[23:05:13] <cradek> who has servers that have graphics anyway??
[23:05:19] <SWPadnos> me me
[23:05:21] <SWPadnos> oh, wait
[23:05:35] <SWPadnos> Novell
[23:05:42] <jmkasunich> http://www.blackbox.com/Catalog/Detail.aspx?cid=537,1299,1354&mid=2111
[23:05:43] <SWPadnos> and Micro$loth
[23:05:45] <cradek> novell?? didn't have graphics last time I saw it
[23:05:50] <jmkasunich> that's what it needs
[23:05:51] <cradek> unless you count the snake
[23:05:56] <SWPadnos> that started with Novell 6, I think
[23:06:31] <cradek> jmkasunich: those aren't even too expensive
[23:06:41] <SWPadnos> have you guys seen any dual-monitor KVMs yet?
[23:06:42] <jmkasunich> I was just thinking about that
[23:07:17] <jmkasunich> buy the one foot cable for $32, use it to test the box, then offer box w/1 user cable and 16 CPU cables on ebay, starting bid $500 ;-)
[23:07:36] <cradek> still have to solve the power supply question?
[23:07:46] <jmkasunich> this one has AC input
[23:07:51] <cradek> ahh
[23:07:52] <jmkasunich> (the affinity)
[23:08:15] <jmkasunich> hmmm
[23:08:33] <jmkasunich> the other one is one user, 16 CPUs, and the user port is also a DB-25
[23:08:35] <skunkworks> are you looking for kvm cables?
[23:08:40] <jmkasunich> with a cable attached ;-)
[23:09:18] <cradek> pretty soon people are going to expect DVI KVM
[23:09:36] <cradek> so you better sell these sooner rather than later
[23:10:22] <SWPadnos> dual and/or dual-link DVI KVM
[23:10:32] <SWPadnos> and USB
[23:11:11] <SWPadnos> Belkin has some relatively cheap ones that can connect to USB or PS/2, and they actually convert for you
[23:11:28] <cradek> good point about usb
[23:11:31] <SWPadnos> (ie, connect a USB keyboard, and you can still plug into PS/2 or USB computers
[23:11:33] <SWPadnos> )
[23:11:34] <cradek> wonder how long we'll have ps2 ports on our motherboards
[23:11:41] <SWPadnos> I have one without
[23:11:50] <SWPadnos> but that model was discontinued ;)
[23:11:50] <jmkasunich> hmm, ebay item 5863914389
[23:11:51] <cradek> I'll have a fit when I have to quit using my AT keyboards
[23:12:07] <SWPadnos> there are PS/2 (and parallel/serial) to USB dongles
[23:12:21] <SWPadnos> but there may not be for long - you should get one soon
[23:12:24] <cradek> jmkasunich: wow, 10 available
[23:12:42] <cradek> This unit use standart KVM cables, which you can buy as low as $10 on ebay.
[23:12:45] <cradek> yeah right...?
[23:12:59] <SWPadnos> they are standard....
[23:13:04] <SWPadnos> for this line of KVM switch
[23:13:44] <cradek> hmm, none have been bought at this price...
[23:13:53] <jmkasunich> the way I read the ebay add, that unit has only one card/module in it
[23:13:55] <SWPadnos> maybe $500 is a little steep ;)
[23:14:02] <jmkasunich> that means one user and 4 cpus
[23:14:29] <SWPadnos> what's the KV1301 vs. the KV1305?
[23:14:46] <jmkasunich> not sure
[23:14:55] <jmkasunich> the ebay is badly worded
[23:15:01] <SWPadnos> it does say that each is fully loaded, one 1305 + a few 1301
[23:15:04] <cradek> on purpose I'm sure
[23:15:16] <cradek> !!!RARE!!!
[23:15:26] <SWPadnos> !!!bullshit!!!
[23:15:46] <jmkasunich> does that mean each unit has a 1305 and the remaining slots (3) have 1301, or does it mean most units have 1 1305 and a few units have 1 1301?
[23:16:15] <cradek> it means he's too lazy to write a few sentences but you're supposed to buy his stuff anyway
[23:16:26] <jmkasunich> yeah
[23:16:28] <SWPadnos> too bad you can't ask him fora couple more days