#emc-devel | Logs for 2006-02-06

[06:42:58] <LawrenceG> anyone awake to night?
[08:33:00] <alex_joni> LawrenceG: just me
[14:21:57] <alex_joni> morning ray
[14:22:37] <rayh> Hi alex
[14:23:11] <rayh> Did you get that sound problem with the steppers figured out?
[14:25:47] <alex_joni> somehow
[14:25:56] <alex_joni> it's better now, but still a bit loud at low speeds
[14:26:09] <alex_joni> but then again, I'm not sure it isn't supposed to sound like that
[14:26:29] <alex_joni> the other motor is lots quieter
[14:28:30] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. If you have a moment, please stop by #freenode-survey and answer a few questions which may help us with feature design. Please check the topic or join notice for the questions and answer briefly on channel. Thanks.
[14:28:35] <rayh> I've had problems with some of the little handwheels rattling but you've swapped motors and the sound traveled with the drive.
[14:29:09] <rayh> #freenode-survey
[14:32:34] <rayh> That wasn't much fun.
[14:36:12] <alex_joni> I've swapped the gecko and the sound still stayed with the gecko
[14:36:32] <alex_joni> but once, running with an open gecko (no cover), the sound went away almost completely
[14:36:49] <alex_joni> when I mounted the cover back on it came back .. but it's not a problem I think
[14:36:52] <rayh> Really. That is odd.
[14:39:08] <alex_joni> indeed
[14:39:16] <alex_joni> anyways ..
[14:39:50] <rayh> I guess we leave the cover off that one.
[14:40:29] <cradek> alex_joni: did you try pressing on the circuit board with the motor running? Maybe there is a broken trace that gets flexed by the case
[14:40:32] <rayh> But noise comes from the motor.
[14:41:25] <alex_joni> rayh: noise comes from the motor, but might be bad driving..
[14:41:30] <alex_joni> high speed is fine though
[14:41:45] <alex_joni> only low speed (manual jogging) is noisy
[14:42:43] <rayh> Okay. Gecko uses the anodizing on the aluminum plate to insulate
[14:43:33] <rayh> If you've got a scope you might look at the signals on that.
[14:43:46] <alex_joni> I'll try to get one.. no scope around now
[14:44:10] <rayh> I don't think a multimeter would show much but it might.
[14:44:26] <rayh> between power minus or plus and the plate.
[14:44:28] <alex_joni> I seriously doubt that
[14:44:29] <alex_joni> :)
[15:56:59] <SWPadnos> is halconfig available from the various tcl "tools" menus?
[16:56:02] <alex_joni> not yet.. but soon
[16:56:06] <SWPadnos> ok
[16:56:14] <alex_joni> it should ;)
[16:56:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wants to look at tkemc today
[16:56:38] <alex_joni> already started to sort tcl things out, (with ray's help of course)
[16:57:06] <SWPadnos> don't you lsort in tcl? ;)
[17:01:38] <alex_joni> yeah.. sure
[19:37:15] <jepler> alex_joni: hi
[19:37:19] <alex_joni> hello
[19:37:31] <alex_joni> ok, I'm sorting some tcl stuff out
[19:37:53] <alex_joni> but I don't have much tcl knowledge, so I'm struggling
[19:38:15] <jepler> what kind of "sorting out" do you mean?
[19:38:26] <alex_joni> well.. I started by cleaning up licensing
[19:38:41] <alex_joni> and then I got to tkemc, and I said I should add halconfig to the menu
[19:38:57] <alex_joni> but then I noticed halconfig only works when run from emc2's top dir
[19:39:04] <alex_joni> so I thought I'd fix that
[19:39:28] <alex_joni> but that's not that easy.. and though I can sort it out eventually, it might be a while
[19:39:49] <alex_joni> for instance.. I'm trying to check for a file now (no idea how to test)
[19:40:01] <SWPadnos> file exists $filename
[19:40:35] <jepler> apt-get install tk8.4-doc tcl8.4-doc
[19:40:44] <alex_joni> if {file exists $EMC2DIR/halcmd } ?
[19:40:44] <jepler> then the tcl and tk manpages are under section "n"
[19:40:52] <jepler> if {[file exists ...]}
[19:41:15] <jepler> What is $EMC2DIR? Is that an environment variable?
[19:41:16] <alex_joni> apt-get complete
[19:41:23] <alex_joni> yeah
[19:41:29] <jepler> then I think it's $env(EMC2DIR)
[19:41:35] <alex_joni> but I converted it to a local var.
[19:41:36] <alex_joni> right
[19:42:17] <jepler> strange, the debian packages have all the tcl and tk stuff under section 3
[19:42:25] <jepler> man 3 file, not man n file like I do on all my fedora systems
[19:42:59] <jepler> or 'man3tcl file'
[19:43:20] <jepler> alex_joni: When is EMC2DIR set? By scripts/emc?
[19:43:40] <alex_joni> yup
[19:43:53] <alex_joni> actually EMC2_BIN_DIR is set by scripts/emc
[19:44:09] <alex_joni> then I export it by bash when halconfig is run (before wish gets run)
[19:44:27] <alex_joni> then I do:
[19:44:47] <alex_joni> if {[info exists env(EMC2_BIN_DIR)]} ...
[19:46:19] <alex_joni> guess I need to figure out scripts/ and such
[19:46:31] <alex_joni> which reminds me..
[19:46:46] <jepler> you should figure out something that can be used by all the tcl scripts
[19:46:49] <alex_joni> cradek: any idea if po stuff works on make install ?
[19:47:03] <alex_joni> jepler: probably I would if I knew how that looks like
[19:47:12] <cradek> alex_joni: no, haven't tried it
[19:47:24] <alex_joni> cradek: we need to try it some time
[19:47:34] <cradek> trying now (very slowly)
[19:47:42] <cradek> I'm sure it'll work in axis
[19:47:53] <cradek> nfc about tkemc
[19:48:24] <cradek> nope it's english
[19:48:30] <cradek> running 'LANG=de emc sim'
[19:48:50] <jepler> alex_joni: I'm not quite sure what it would look like either
[19:50:58] <jepler> alex_joni: If all the tcl programs were run from inside scripts/emc, it would be possible to set an environment variable so that 'package require emc' would make some extra commands and variables available, and then particular files (like .ini files, splash-screen gifs, or whatever) would be found based on that
[19:51:03] <alex_joni> cradek: don't even bother.. I realized translations don't get installed
[19:51:19] <cradek> I spoke too soon - de axis doesn't work either
[19:51:42] <alex_joni> bugger it.. axis had a fair chance :)
[19:51:50] <cradek> wonder if the emc script screws up LANG
[19:52:06] <alex_joni> try env LANG=de emc sim
[19:52:07] <jepler> cradek: are you on ubuntu or bdi?
[19:52:23] <alex_joni> con't think you'll catch him on bdi
[19:52:26] <alex_joni> don't
[19:52:33] <alex_joni> wtf is wrong with me...
[19:52:36] <jepler> cradek: on ubuntu I noticed that 'LANGUAGE' was set, and after I unset it, LANG was used.
[19:52:36] <cradek> chris@buster2:~$ dpkg -L emc2-axis |grep /de
[19:52:36] <cradek> /usr/share/axis/tcl/bwidget/lang/de.rc
[19:52:36] <cradek> /usr/share/locale/de
[19:52:36] <cradek> /usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES
[19:52:36] <cradek> /usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/axis.mo
[19:52:55] <cradek> jepler: aha let me try that
[19:53:16] <alex_joni> jepler: how does that package work?
[19:53:39] <alex_joni> 'package require emc' is that deb related?
[19:54:19] <alex_joni> oh, I see there's some tcl package foo
[19:54:22] <jepler> alex_joni: I'm a bit fuzzy on how Tcl "packages" work, but the basics are that a directory has a special file 'pkgIndex.tcl' and that directory is listed in tcl's $auto_path
[19:54:57] <cradek> ok I agree de axis works fine
[19:55:02] <jepler> alex_joni: right now there is no tcl "emc package"
[19:55:23] <alex_joni> guess this is beyond my limited tcl knowledge :(
[19:55:24] <jepler> alex_joni: that's something that would have to be written, and environment variables set for it
[19:55:28] <cradek> except for "Geschwindigkeits�bersteuerung" which still looks a bit ridiculous
[19:56:03] <alex_joni> jepler: how did you make tcl use the .mo ?
[19:56:50] <jepler> alex_joni: I've never done internationalization for a pure tcl app
[19:57:23] <alex_joni> jepler: otoh, even if you did and told me, I probably would be just as clueless :))
[19:57:32] <jepler> alex_joni: I think you're forced to use their terrible msgcat::foo, you can't use .mo files
[19:58:18] <alex_joni> jepler: ok, then I guess I'll have to see where the .msg get installed to, and use those
[19:58:21] <jepler> alex_joni: based only on the manpage, I think you can extend the directories that are searched for .msg files by the msgcat::mcload command
[19:58:35] <alex_joni> yup, I think so too
[19:59:59] <alex_joni> one more question: instaed of [open "|bin/halcmd -skf"] can I do [open"|$EMC2BIN/halcmd ... ?
[20:00:38] <jepler> That should work, as long as $EMC2BIN doesn't contain the kind of characters that are problems in shell commands
[20:03:20] <alex_joni> hrmm.. does halconfig.tcl work for you if hal isn't loaded?
[20:03:31] <jepler> dunno, I don't have an emc2 machine to test at the moment
[20:03:33] <alex_joni> it should pop up some window, but I only get some errors
[20:03:48] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: can you try?
[20:04:16] <alex_joni> Error in startup script: invalid command name "noHal"
[20:04:16] <alex_joni> while executing
[20:04:16] <alex_joni> "noHal"
[20:04:16] <alex_joni> invoked from within
[20:04:16] <alex_joni> "if {$temp == -1} {
[20:04:19] <alex_joni> noHal
[20:04:43] <alex_joni> although further down there is a proc noHal
[20:05:32] <alex_joni> does order of proc definition matter in tcl ?
[20:06:16] <alex_joni> seems so :)
[20:06:31] <jepler> alex_joni: Yes. The proc must be defined before it is called.
[20:06:48] <alex_joni> ok, ray must have moved it without wanting that
[20:07:07] <jepler> though this is OK: proc a {} { b }; proc b {} {}; a
[20:07:27] <alex_joni> hrmm.. this was the case
[20:07:28] <jepler> because it's not until a is actually called that b is used, so it's OK that b isn't defined when a is defined
[20:07:43] <alex_joni> but moving proc b to the beginning cured it
[20:08:14] <alex_joni> err.. no, the call a was before proc b
[20:11:58] <jepler> why not have scripts/emc put $EMC2BIN on $PATH, so that you can just [open "|halcmd ..."]?
[20:12:34] <alex_joni> hrmm.. that's nice too
[20:12:53] <alex_joni> but does it work for this case?
[20:13:04] <alex_joni> emc runs tkemc.tcl (which is bash, then emcsh)
[20:13:10] <jepler> [open "|..."] will use $PATH
[20:13:30] <alex_joni> $PATH is global?
[20:13:47] <alex_joni> PATH=$PATH,$EMC2_BIN_DIR ?
[20:14:00] <jepler> the environment variable PATH is used by the C functions system() and execvp(), one of which is what [open "|..."] uses
[20:14:06] <jepler> PATH=$EMC2_BIN_DIR:$PATH
[20:14:49] <jepler> put it at the beginning, in case we're running in-place but there's a /usr/bin/halcmd from emc2.deb
[20:17:39] <alex_joni> any idea how to check for halcmd in $PATH from tcl ?
[20:17:47] <alex_joni> file exists ?
[20:18:03] <jepler> doesn't halcmd always have to be present?
[20:18:21] <alex_joni> yeah, but halconfig bails out if it's not there
[20:18:28] <alex_joni> for example not compiled
[20:18:50] <cradek> how can you run emc without halcmd compiled?
[20:19:03] <alex_joni> you can run halconfig.tcl
[20:19:21] <alex_joni> and it should test for halcmd and fail if it's not there
[20:19:24] <SWPadnos> oops - back.
[20:19:27] <alex_joni> but fail nicely
[20:19:33] <SWPadnos> I'll boot up my machine if you still want me to test stuff
[20:22:04] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: not that urgent
[20:22:08] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:22:20] <SWPadnos> it's booting. I was going to take a look at halconfig anyway
[20:23:34] <alex_joni> what's the print command in tcl again?
[20:23:39] <SWPadnos> puts
[20:23:40] <cradek> puts stderr
[20:23:44] <alex_joni> darn
[20:23:57] <alex_joni> why can't they call it print or write or echo or something :D
[20:24:19] <SWPadnos> those are all taken
[20:24:32] <jepler> proc {print or write or echo or something} {args} { eval concat puts stderr $args }
[20:24:45] <jepler> then you can write: {print or write or echo or something} this is a nifty diagnostic message
[20:25:02] <jepler> well, no, not quite...
[20:25:06] <jepler> forget I said anything
[20:25:08] <alex_joni> lol, I'd love a program that has 'something "fishy"' in it ;)
[20:25:14] <SWPadnos> print_or_write_or_echo_or_something
[20:26:07] <SWPadnos> sometime in the next 5 years, someone will see this log, and make a function called POWOEOS, and nobody will know why
[20:26:22] <alex_joni> he will
[20:26:27] <jepler> ah, this is what I meant to write: proc {something fishy} args { puts stderr $args }
[20:31:22] <jepler> puts expects the thing to put on a single line, so using eval concat was the entirely wrong tree
[20:31:31] <jepler> and it was missing some square brackets anyway
[20:31:48] <jepler> I guess I should avoid showing how clever I am at tcl if I'm to continue evading responsibility for the tcl code in emc2
[20:31:49] <alex_joni> like I would know :)
[20:32:07] <alex_joni> I guess so too :P
[20:34:03] <cradek> jepler: the cat's out of the bag you know
[20:34:36] <alex_joni> cradek: think we'll give him a few more weeks to accomodate the developer status
[20:34:44] <alex_joni> but that's it then..
[20:35:00] <jepler> step 1: remove the tcl components that have been replaced by superior alternatives (that means mini and tkemc)
[20:35:17] <cradek> alex_joni: I don't get what you mean
[20:35:32] <jepler> step 2: rewrite remaining pure tcl components into python
[20:35:44] <alex_joni> cradek: he only started to commit code to emc2 recently
[20:35:51] <cradek> jepler: saying that is surely worse than drawing mohammed cartoons
[20:37:01] <alex_joni> jepler: I don't get it.. are mini & tkemc the superior alternatives? or did they get replaced by superior alternatives?
[20:37:15] <alex_joni> if the later.. by which? as I can't see any in CVS
[20:37:17] <cradek> alex_joni: he's trolling about AXIS
[20:37:31] <alex_joni> no he's not.. at least not till it's part of emc2
[20:37:44] <alex_joni> :P
[20:38:10] <jepler> I can troll anytime I like
[20:38:22] <cradek> I can attest to that
[20:38:38] <alex_joni> you do resemble a troll sometimes :)
[20:38:45] <alex_joni> but we all do ;)
[20:39:15] <SWPadnos> speak for yourself
[20:39:41] <SWPadnos> I may not be as cute as my half-sister, but I'm not a troll ;)
[20:39:51] <alex_joni> trolls are cute :)
[20:39:57] <alex_joni> at least the cute kind of trolls
[20:40:05] <alex_joni> the ones with pink hair
[20:40:08] <SWPadnos> heh - to other trolls, I guess
[20:40:12] <SWPadnos> Tananda
[20:40:39] <jepler> I just did a GIS on "cute troll" and I have to agree there's no such thing
[20:40:52] <alex_joni> lol
[20:40:58] <alex_joni> GIS=google image search?
[20:41:08] <jepler> yes
[20:41:26] <SWPadnos> read the "M.Y.T.H." series, by Robert Lynn Asprin, I think
[20:41:26] <alex_joni> internet certainly defines new words
[20:42:06] <alex_joni> http://i1.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/18/22/df_2.JPG
[20:42:42] <SWPadnos> that's hideous
[20:42:48] <cradek> alex_joni: I've never found those cute...
[20:43:00] <alex_joni> well.. cuter than other trolls
[20:43:07] <cradek> looks like a baby but even uglier
[20:44:21] <alex_joni> lol, like the 'ugli_er_' part :)
[20:44:49] <SWPadnos> at least it's quiet_er_
[20:45:06] <alex_joni> jepler: how do I test for files in path ?
[20:45:22] <alex_joni> [file executable foo] doesn't work :(
[20:45:33] <cradek> % set a [open "|zzz"]
[20:45:33] <cradek> couldn't execute "zzz": no such file or directory
[20:45:33] <cradek> % info exists a
[20:45:33] <cradek> 0
[20:46:09] <alex_joni> I just know that was supposed to be a hint..
[20:46:10] <cradek> I think you shouldn't test, you should just handle the error
[20:47:19] <jepler> I kinda agree
[20:47:48] <alex_joni> so I should try an exec halcmd ?
[20:48:38] <cradek> yes, and handle an error if you get it
[20:48:58] <cradek> searching the path is hard, and it's stupid to do it - it's the job of exec*
[20:49:13] <cradek> no need to over-write
[20:49:24] <alex_joni> if {![exec halcmd]} .. ?
[20:49:35] <cradek> I dunno, ask jepler :-)
[20:50:10] <jepler> since a missing halcmd signifies a hopelessly broken emc installation, I say just crash and burn
[20:50:21] <jepler> won't scripts/emc have long since failed if it's not present?
[20:50:42] <alex_joni> no, you're missing the point.. halconfig can run by itself
[20:50:57] <alex_joni> not necessarely run from tkemc, or the script
[20:51:04] <alex_joni> that part is what I am doing now
[20:51:20] <alex_joni> till now you started emc, switched to a new console, and ran halconfig
[20:51:31] <jepler> proc which file {
[20:51:32] <jepler> foreach dir [split $::env(PATH) :] {
[20:51:32] <jepler> set pathname [file join $dir $file]
[20:51:32] <jepler> if {[file executable $pathname]} { return $pathname }
[20:51:32] <jepler> }
[20:51:34] <jepler> return ""
[20:51:36] <jepler> }
[20:51:53] <alex_joni> how about: set haltest [exec halcmd]
[20:52:07] <alex_joni> if {$haltest == ""} { exit }
[20:52:10] <jepler> [which zzz] returns the path to the program 'zzz', or the empty string if there is none
[20:52:30] <jepler> % which bash
[20:52:30] <jepler> /bin/bash
[20:52:30] <jepler> % which flooz
[20:52:30] <jepler> %
[20:52:39] <alex_joni> I don't trust code I don't understand :)
[20:53:11] <cradek> even I understand that which
[20:53:21] <alex_joni> even you know more tcl than me
[20:53:26] <cradek> not that I could have written it myself in a half hour
[20:53:36] <alex_joni> I have no idea what split & join do :)
[20:53:54] <SWPadnos> I think they split and join things
[20:53:55] <cradek> they do the obvious things
[20:53:58] <alex_joni> anyways..
[20:54:02] <jepler> [file join $dir $file] is much the same as "$dir/$file", as long as $file doesn't start with a slash
[20:54:05] <SWPadnos> strings, most likely (at least in tcl)
[20:54:31] <alex_joni> don't bother teaching me.. I'm not at all fond of tcl
[20:54:41] <jepler> alex_joni: I'm not very fond of tcl either
[20:54:46] <SWPadnos> man tcl > /dev/null
[20:54:50] <alex_joni> jepler: walk away..
[20:55:05] <alex_joni> from tcl I mean
[20:55:31] <jepler> alex_joni: first you ask me for help, then you ask me to walk away? Make up your mind.
[20:55:45] <alex_joni> help me as you're walking away :)
[20:55:52] <alex_joni> kidding..
[20:56:05] <alex_joni> it's not friendly at all (tcl I mean)
[20:56:09] <cradek> * cradek throws a fish at alex_joni
[20:56:10] <SWPadnos> These scripts were made for walkin'
[20:56:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni likes fish
[20:56:38] <alex_joni> cradek: that fish is already transformed into some yummy sushi
[20:56:45] <SWPadnos> some pickled herring in cream sauce would be nice
[20:56:49] <alex_joni> with wasabi
[20:57:01] <cradek> ok that wasn't my intent
[20:57:04] <SWPadnos> mmmmm - sushi
[20:57:19] <SWPadnos> maybe the next Fest should be in Japan ;)
[20:57:25] <alex_joni> that reminds me.. I have some ingredients left, should make some sushi these days
[20:57:48] <SWPadnos> err - maybe some cooked fish would be better, with "left" ingredients of this type ;)
[20:59:28] <alex_joni> well.. I usually use smoked salmon
[20:59:34] <SWPadnos> yummy
[20:59:51] <alex_joni> not that much of a fan of the raw fish..
[20:59:57] <alex_joni> although raw meat is good
[21:00:10] <SWPadnos> I like Salmon, Tuna, and Mackerel quite a bit
[21:00:10] <alex_joni> jepler: look away :)
[21:00:15] <SWPadnos> also Carpaccio
[21:00:29] <SWPadnos> (on the meat side)
[21:01:02] <alex_joni> I had shark carpaccio once
[21:01:05] <alex_joni> very nice
[21:01:09] <SWPadnos> odd
[21:01:17] <cradek> ewwww
[21:01:19] <SWPadnos> shark is a bit rubbery, isn't it?
[21:01:20] <cradek> did I start this?
[21:01:25] <cradek> this is worse than tcl
[21:01:28] <SWPadnos> not as bad as octopus though
[21:01:30] <alex_joni> not rubbery.. it's good
[21:01:37] <alex_joni> octopus is damn yummy
[21:01:43] <SWPadnos> Guidos in LA has very good carpaccio
[21:01:45] <alex_joni> but properly cooked
[21:01:51] <SWPadnos> good food in general, actually
[21:02:04] <SWPadnos> octopus is good, but definitely takes some chewing
[21:02:05] <alex_joni> some octopus in wine sauce..
[21:02:10] <SWPadnos> as sushi
[21:02:17] <alex_joni> lol.. guess so
[21:02:33] <alex_joni> btw, I made some sausages last week.. they turned out yummy
[21:02:47] <SWPadnos> reminds me of one of my favorite sayings
[21:02:57] <alex_joni> just got them back from smoking today
[21:03:12] <SWPadnos> "laws are like sausage, you lose all respect for them once you see how they're made"
[21:03:18] <SWPadnos> (or something like that)
[21:03:33] <alex_joni> well.. I actually was surprised how easy they are made
[21:03:53] <SWPadnos> yep - depends on how fancy you want to get with the spices
[21:04:04] <SWPadnos> and whether or not you have a machine to help stuff them
[21:04:05] <alex_joni> minced meat & fat, spices, mix for a while, put that in pork intestines.. done
[21:04:15] <SWPadnos> yep
[21:04:27] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: over here almost every 3rd person has a machine for stuffing those
[21:04:37] <alex_joni> make that 3rd family
[21:04:41] <alex_joni> not person
[21:04:43] <SWPadnos> heh - I can't even get my wife to buy me a stand mixer :)
[21:04:56] <SWPadnos> (I'd buy it myself, but they're expensive ;) )
[21:05:13] <alex_joni> well.. before the revolution (during the old regime) you couldn't find stuff like that, so people made their own..
[21:05:18] <SWPadnos> we love going to ermany. I get all the sausages, and she gets all the brerads
[21:05:24] <SWPadnos> Germany
[21:05:33] <SWPadnos> (which is closer to you than we are)
[21:05:33] <alex_joni> brerads?
[21:05:41] <alex_joni> did you try met?
[21:05:48] <SWPadnos> yeah - erman bereeserreeads :)
[21:06:09] <SWPadnos> Bread and Sausage (there - damned fingers)
[21:06:09] <alex_joni> no idea what that is..
[21:06:16] <alex_joni> ahh
[21:06:30] <alex_joni> wurstbrot/
[21:06:32] <alex_joni> ?
[21:06:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:06:58] <SWPadnos> I like meats more than she does, but she likes all the dense breads more than I do
[21:07:15] <alex_joni> heh.. soudns like a good fit then
[21:07:16] <SWPadnos> so we still like going to Germany, because they have both
[21:07:20] <SWPadnos> yep
[21:09:04] <alex_joni> you need to try Mett once
[21:09:14] <alex_joni> that's in the cologne region
[21:09:15] <SWPadnos> what is that?
[21:09:26] <alex_joni> it's some minced meat you eat on bread
[21:09:34] <alex_joni> but with some special spices
[21:09:37] <alex_joni> very good
[21:09:45] <SWPadnos> hmm - I'm probably going there this September - I'll have to remember
[21:09:54] <alex_joni> with gurkeys .. yumm
[21:10:05] <alex_joni> cologne?
[21:10:38] <SWPadnos> yes, cologne
[21:10:49] <alex_joni> coo
[21:10:51] <SWPadnos> the Photokina trade show is in late September or early October
[21:11:19] <alex_joni> I like cologne.. were you there before?
[21:11:31] <SWPadnos> 3 or 4 times, for a few days each time
[21:11:47] <alex_joni> guess you climbed the dome then
[21:11:54] <SWPadnos> nope - not there
[21:12:00] <SWPadnos> (did it at the Duomo though)
[21:12:10] <SWPadnos> I'm always at a trade show in Koln
[21:12:15] <SWPadnos> not much time to play around
[21:13:15] <SWPadnos> the first time I was there, I stayed at the Excelsior Dom hotel, I could see the twin steeples in the mist above the hotel roof - it was pretty cool
[21:13:44] <SWPadnos> except that there were metal scaffolds, because it's been under renovation for the last (long time)
[21:17:14] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: the dome is always under construction
[21:17:23] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:17:29] <SWPadnos> the Domokloster?
[21:17:33] <alex_joni> local word says that the day they stop building it, it's the end of the world
[21:17:47] <SWPadnos> I see - well then, they can keep on going
[21:17:52] <SWPadnos> but they need clear scaffolds :)
[21:17:59] <alex_joni> lol
[21:18:21] <alex_joni> I looked at the scaffolds last time I went up there. do you know they are only suspended on the towers?
[21:18:36] <alex_joni> I mean, they didn't use bolts to bolt the scaffolds to the towers
[21:18:47] <alex_joni> they used ropes to suspend the scaffolds up there
[21:18:58] <SWPadnos> right - they don't want to damage the building
[21:19:19] <alex_joni> well.. I'd feel funny about walking on those
[21:19:22] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:19:55] <SWPadnos> I went inside for the first time when I was there ~1.5 years ago
[21:20:15] <alex_joni> it's pretty big :)
[21:20:21] <SWPadnos> it is
[21:20:26] <SWPadnos> I loke the organ as well
[21:20:28] <alex_joni> but you really need to make it up there
[21:20:29] <SWPadnos> like
[21:20:34] <alex_joni> check out the bells...
[21:20:38] <SWPadnos> I'll try to do that this time
[21:20:57] <SWPadnos> I'll see if my sister wants to pop over from Gottingen
[21:21:32] <SWPadnos> too bad there aren't any fast trains ibetween Gottingen and Koln
[21:21:48] <alex_joni> can't say I know german trains too well :)
[21:22:14] <SWPadnos> me either, except between Dusseldorf / Koln, Frankfurt, Munich, and Gottingen ;)
[21:50:47] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away