#emc-devel | Logs for 2006-02-03

[00:42:54] <rayh_away> rayh_away is now known as rayh
[00:43:17] <SWPadnos> hi there Ray
[00:43:31] <rayh> Hey. how you doing this evening?
[00:43:49] <SWPadnos> OK.
[00:43:59] <SWPadnos> trying to remember how to use CADMax
[00:44:01] <rayh> took me three hours to blow snow out the main drive way.
[00:44:11] <rayh> I'm a bit sore.
[00:44:22] <SWPadnos> heh - it was around 45 here today, no snow left to blow
[00:44:25] <rayh> what is cadmax?
[00:44:37] <SWPadnos> inexpensive Windows-based parametric CAD package
[00:44:43] <SWPadnos> http://www.cadmax.com/
[00:44:44] <rayh> Wait a couple days.
[00:44:53] <SWPadnos> heh - OK. just in time for the weekend ;)
[00:44:56] <rayh> okay. never heard of it.
[00:45:25] <rayh> My all time favorite MS CAD package was easycad.
[00:45:34] <SWPadnos> it's got features that are pretty close to SolidWorks (less the sheet metal stuff), not quite as polished, but only $300
[00:45:45] <rayh> Nice
[00:45:49] <SWPadnos> I like it
[00:45:59] <SWPadnos> I have to have a parametric modeller - I make too many mistakes
[00:46:09] <rayh> okay.
[00:46:56] <SWPadnos> do you know a source for both pulleys and belts in GT2 profile?
[00:47:06] <SWPadnos> I seem to find one or the other a lot
[00:48:13] <rayh> Is that the double sided stuff?
[00:48:34] <SWPadnos> nope - just has very good power transfer efficiency, and doesn't slip or cog at all
[00:49:00] <SWPadnos> the gear tooth profile is basically round, like an HTD pulley
[00:49:00] <rayh> I don't know anything about it then.
[00:49:46] <SWPadnos> but the belt is kind of a cross between XL and HTD - the bottom is cut off, leaving room for crap in the pulley without it affecting the belt (like popping it off the pulley)
[00:49:47] <SWPadnos> ok
[00:49:59] <rayh> McMaster shows round toothed
[00:50:05] <SWPadnos> yep -HTD, I think
[00:50:18] <rayh> 8mm pitch
[00:50:45] <SWPadnos> hmm - they do have PowerGrip GT style - I wonder if that's the same
[00:54:26] <SWPadnos> it's pretty amazing that I can spend as much on plleys as others spend on their mills :)
[00:55:35] <rayh> yep
[00:56:03] <rayh> And I'm wanting a pair of worm and worm wheels for a scara robot.
[00:56:13] <SWPadnos> cool
[00:56:40] <SWPadnos> that's the problem with buying used high end stuff - maintenance kills you
[00:56:56] <rayh> Yep.
[00:57:02] <SWPadnos> the right angle gear reducer for my bandsaw is a $900 part
[00:57:07] <rayh> But then it is high end
[00:57:14] <SWPadnos> I live with the oil leaking out
[00:57:18] <SWPadnos> yes
[00:57:30] <SWPadnos> I can cut large blocks of stell with ease, so there is a plus
[00:57:34] <SWPadnos> steel
[00:57:39] <rayh> What I was looking at was 100/1 ratio and about 200 a pair.
[00:57:58] <rayh> And that makes a big difference.
[00:58:09] <SWPadnos> ok. this gearbox is only 10:1 ratio, but 1HP input power
[00:58:28] <SWPadnos> 3/4 inch shaft on the input, 1-1/8 on the output
[00:58:48] <rayh> Okay. If you need a custom geer quote try rush gears.
[00:59:21] <SWPadnos> the amazing thing is, when I opened it up to clear out the oil of the ages, the gears looked perfectly new and shiny, and this saw is probably from the 1940s
[00:59:50] <rayh> Okay. Why you spec a new one?
[00:59:53] <SWPadnos> I'll check them out
[01:00:07] <SWPadnos> well - it does leak
[01:00:28] <SWPadnos> there's a hole that may be intentional, and oil comes a-bubbling out when I run the saw
[01:00:28] <rayh> Shaft seals?
[01:00:35] <SWPadnos> no - those are fine
[01:00:50] <rayh> Then there is just to much of the wrong kind of oil in there.
[01:01:12] <SWPadnos> I think there may be a small rubber plug missing or something. this may be for bleeding out air when you add oil
[01:01:12] <rayh> Worms are pretty finicky
[01:01:32] <SWPadnos> yep - it's heavy duty gear oil in there
[01:01:41] <SWPadnos> about like cold molasses
[01:01:49] <rayh> talk to roltek the next time you catch him on
[01:02:01] <SWPadnos> ok - he's a gear guy?
[01:02:20] <rayh> Made all the transmissions for K&T.
[01:02:30] <SWPadnos> oh - I guess he is a gear guy ;)
[01:02:31] <rayh> builds nascar transmissions now.
[01:03:04] <SWPadnos> cool
[01:05:18] <SWPadnos> do you know how rush gear's pricing is?
[01:12:34] <rayh> High but for custom gears they are the best.
[01:13:18] <rayh> If you can find a stock item one a shelf someplace that will usually cost less.
[01:15:40] <SWPadnos> ok - tahnks. not that I actually measured anything when I had that box apart, but it's good to know
[01:15:53] <SWPadnos> (also, as I said, the gears were amazingly well preserved)
[01:16:15] <rayh> May not be a gear problem at all.
[01:16:31] <rayh> Is there a lot of lash?
[01:16:45] <SWPadnos> nope - the saw works - I was just concerned about the oil hole. I don't want to order a replacement from Dake to see
[01:16:56] <SWPadnos> not that backlash matters for a bandsaw anyway
[01:18:00] <rayh> It would be an indication of wear in the worm.
[01:18:05] <SWPadnos> true
[01:18:13] <rayh> Or alignment problems.
[01:18:24] <SWPadnos> hmmm - let me go check
[01:18:35] <rayh> sometimes these have eccentric shafts or bearings or bearing holders.
[01:20:35] <SWPadnos> I can't detect any backlash in the reducer, but it would be hard to detect by hand at 10:1
[01:22:04] <SWPadnos> the saw actually has 3 sets of gear reduction. the V-belt sheaves from motor to gear reducer, right-angle reducer (10:1), and then the output of that has a small gear that drives the huge saw pulley
[01:23:22] <rayh> Got to get the surface feet per minute down.
[01:23:43] <SWPadnos> yep
[01:24:08] <SWPadnos> the blade pulleys are about 24" across, so it needs a lot of reduction
[01:24:23] <SWPadnos> maybe a little less, like 20-22"
[01:26:07] <rayh> Okay. That large size should make blades last longer.
[01:26:19] <SWPadnos> I hope so.
[01:26:29] <SWPadnos> plus I don't use it too often, so they should last a looooong time :)
[01:26:51] <rayh> Right unless you drag all the teeth off of em.
[01:27:41] <SWPadnos> I bought a Johnson model K (or A?) on eBay, only it turned out to bea much larger model J
[01:28:02] <SWPadnos> it cuts through anodized aluminum like butter
[01:29:41] <SWPadnos> hmm - maybe it was supposed to be a model B - the 300 pound one
[01:30:37] <rayh> I've serviced quite a few of the k model. Nice units.
[01:31:04] <SWPadnos> those are the 300 pound ones?
[01:36:15] <rayh> Seems like about that
[01:36:18] <rayh> or more
[01:37:11] <SWPadnos> ok - that's the one I thought I was buying, but It was the bigger one instead (heck of a deal, I think - $300 for an 11x18 or 11x14 throat)
[01:37:30] <rayh> They had hydraulic lift and repeat so you could cut whole bars unattended.
[01:37:43] <SWPadnos> I'm thinking of adding that to mine
[01:38:14] <SWPadnos> I have a small VFD fro speed adjustents, and I'm thinking that just a stop bar is good enough for cutting quantities of same-length parts
[01:38:34] <rayh> Right. That's how these did it.
[01:38:50] <SWPadnos> lift ram, unclamp, push until you hit the stop, clamp, start motor, drive down at feed rate (or let the hydraulic cylinder do it)
[01:38:51] <rayh> The stop was spring loaded so it tripped a limit.
[01:39:01] <SWPadnos> yep - that would work
[01:39:15] <SWPadnos> or a current trip
[01:39:20] <rayh> Yes it was the same hyd cylinder for both directions.
[01:39:33] <SWPadnos> my lift cylinder is having trouble
[01:39:36] <rayh> there was a solenoid that routed the oil
[01:39:50] <SWPadnos> I've replaced the O-rings, but it still won't hold the ram up
[01:40:04] <SWPadnos> those are another very expensive part from Dake
[01:40:42] <rayh> Is there a solenoid in the lift circuit?
[01:40:52] <SWPadnos> there is no lift circuit :)
[01:41:05] <SWPadnos> it's a manually operated saw
[01:41:12] <SWPadnos> but I might CNC it some day
[01:41:14] <rayh> So you hand raise the head
[01:41:35] <rayh> then set the down speed using a valve?
[01:41:37] <SWPadnos> yep - you're supposed to raise the head by hand, then turn the cylinder control all the way one direction
[01:41:43] <SWPadnos> yep - the same valve
[01:42:01] <SWPadnos> auto shut-off though (in a NEMA 12 box now)
[01:42:05] <rayh> bypass when you lift and regulate on the way down.
[01:42:37] <SWPadnos> it's got a return line, so I think lifting is possible even with it "locked" (I could be wrong about that)
[01:42:54] <SWPadnos> of course, mine is never locked right now, so I can always lift it
[01:43:03] <SWPadnos> I should look at that valve again
[01:43:13] <rayh> Getting the hydraulic to work is the most difficult part.
[01:43:22] <SWPadnos> for manual or CNC?
[01:43:32] <rayh> You may find that the leaking rather than holding is a valve problem
[01:44:12] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure the cylinder is leaking - I'll have to look at it again
[01:44:36] <SWPadnos> I did rebuild it a while ago, but that was the first time I'd ever seen a hydraulic cylinder taken apart
[01:44:42] <rayh> But it won't hold the head up for very long?
[01:44:43] <SWPadnos> so I might have goofed
[01:44:52] <SWPadnos> very long being about 1 microsecond ;)
[01:45:00] <rayh> oh.
[01:45:10] <SWPadnos> hmmm - let me fiddle with it for a minute - I could be wrong about this
[01:45:48] <rayh> It could also be the bypass valve not seating properly to hold.
[01:51:00] <SWPadnos> ok - the valve handle turns easily, no drips or visible leaks when I exercise the head
[01:51:24] <SWPadnos> nothing moves in the return line though, and cahnging the valve setting has no apparent effect on the fall speed
[01:51:53] <SWPadnos> so it looks like i need to take the cylinder apart again (or check that the 3 threaded rods are tightened correctly)
[01:52:03] <SWPadnos> the filler cup on top still has oil in it as well
[01:58:26] <rayh> Is that valve a multiturn one with a bent handle sticking up?
[01:58:51] <SWPadnos> no - it has the bent handle sticking up, but it's only like a half turn (1 turn at the most) of usable range
[02:00:33] <rayh> It's been a while now but I thought that was a multiturn device.
[02:00:53] <rayh> what I get for tinking eh!
[02:00:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:01:03] <SWPadnos> this one could be different
[02:01:11] <SWPadnos> the saw has a serial number below 10000
[02:01:12] <rayh> True
[02:01:24] <SWPadnos> like 9342 or something
[02:01:36] <rayh> The ones I worked on were < 500
[02:01:42] <SWPadnos> wow - cool
[02:01:48] <SWPadnos> on the model K or the model J?
[02:01:52] <rayh> very old
[02:02:10] <SWPadnos> (K might have come after J, but I'm not sure)
[02:02:27] <rayh> In some ways they worked better than the Hydmech that replaced them
[02:02:57] <rayh> Put 3 plc's in that and replaced several other parts.
[02:04:01] <SWPadnos> I'd just go for the G-Rex - that's probably a perfect use for it in standalone mode
[02:04:09] <SWPadnos> hmmm - glad I thought of that
[02:05:51] <rayh> That's it. Or you can get a $99 brick from automation direct.
[02:06:04] <rayh> ship it to me and I'll program it for you.
[02:06:09] <SWPadnos> well - Mariss sent me a G-rex, so Imight as well use it :)
[02:06:21] <rayh> You bet.
[02:06:38] <SWPadnos> though I spent the money on the Rabbit development kit instead ;)
[02:13:42] <rayh> That sounds like a screw up someplace.
[02:15:07] <rayh> gotta run. Nice talking with you.
[07:34:37] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. We just experienced a brief connectivity loss on a main rotation server. Looking at the problem now. Apologies for the inconvenience!
[07:35:32] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away